Douglas Southcott: Hello Mr. Lim,

David Lim: A lack of respect and acknowledgement for fellow minister aired.

(Many issues raised by Douglas below had been answered by my preceeding reply and earlier correspondence. He just ignored them, gave no answer, and let the audience forget what has been going on.)

Douglas Southcott: While you were under Abba Ministries and we allowed you to do weddings without question or investigation you considered Abba Ministries of Canada to be of God and blessed.

David Lim: How do anyone know that? Anyone looking at my untampered application form would spot that I do not agree with all things Abba Ministries states they believe in. I do not believe in immersionism.

Sounds like negligence of Abba Ministries.

Abba Ministries, like wolves in sheepskin have exposed their real identities after our initial contact.

In respecting UCMI, I trusted that Abba Ministries was investigated and accepted as a Christian organisation. However I heard from UCMI lately that Abba Ministries has later shown themselves to be less than Christian.

Christians have duties to expose darkness and have nothing in common with sin.

Consideration was made and discussed in the assembly. We were patient with the doubtful act and issues of Abba Ministries. We had waited for Abba to get better than what was done. Unfortunately it just get worse.

My references and all were supposedly checked out. But Abba Ministries has not lived up to Christian integrity and honesty in our understanding and opinion.

Greetings David,

I am pleased to hear that you severed all ties to ABBA. UCMI broke off all involvement with them some time back as they wanted to "control" everything and dictate how we would operate our ministry. They have slandered us and done all they could to be less than Christian in their conduct in this issue.

Yours in Christ,

David Lim: The application form did the questioning. I did not suddenly wake up one day and found everything in place, did I? Approval came after the form submission, and of course, the payment! Anybody question the transaction fee?

David Lim: I trusted Abba Ministries because of the integrity and establishment of UCMI.

Have I not blessed Abba Ministries with many suggestion for ministries, shared steps/operation to my ministries?

Have I not given CDs, SVCDs to Abba Ministries free for the edification of the brethren?

Have I not spread good news about Abba Ministries?

I still wrote to tell Doug. I have faith (good faith, well meant) in him when the personnel(Doug and John Bonesteele) failed to demonstrate their integrity, when Doug. wrote e-mail to accuse me of not wanting to meet him after he changed name of meeting place, failed to supply meeting time.

I still have faith in Abba Ministries when it is no more than a postal address. There is no official office; no body running the denomination office. Just a mailing address and supplied wrong on envelope heading and in "Grateful Hearts" the Ministries� magazine. Yet no apology was given. Only excuses.

¡@

Belief of Abba Ministries as posted on the web July 2002:

Separation 2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1

David Lim: Obeying any Denomination or directorate is not obedient to the Biblical commands.

Obeying worldly Abba Ministries is not to have oneself and the church/assembly separated from worldliness and ecclesiastical apostasy. Buying professional insurance is not any Biblical decree or practice.

Disrespecting fellow ordained ministers is no saintly/holy conduct.

Insulting Christians, calling them ignorant and untrained; forcing Christians to take certain certifying academic courses from somebody who is not academically qualified and forcing all Christians who are to evangelise (therefore to counsel) to buy insurance annually is NO BIBLICAL ACTION.

Civil Government Romans 13:1-7 2 Samuel 23:3 Exodus 18:21-22 Acts 23:5

David Lim: This divine appointment for the interests and good order of human society does not guarantee Canadian governments to be holy and Godly.

The Canadian government is exercising democracy ( society run by the majority who are unbelievers, many of which are Atheists and anti-Christians) which is not Biblical. Anti-Bible and unrighteous laws are being passed (eg: homosexual marriage, common law gay couples with pension benefits.)

Douglas Southcott: You said you were happy to be a part of our group. Yet when concerns arose about the type of weddings you were doing as well as if what you were teaching was of God or not all of a sudden Abba Ministries is not of God etc., etc. etc. ad nausium.

¡@

David Lim: Who is inventing again? Whose concern? I never knew that. Who was questioning my teaching? I never knew that. What inventors!!

Who was questioning my weddings? What false witness!! Who voiced concern about my teaching? What lies!!! Why change subject to avoid answering??? Something to hide!!

David Lim: I brought up the record just a short while ago:

Delores: If you allow say, Jeff Wilbur, to counsel with your knowledge and blessing

then he is acting as a legal representative of your church. so Jeff should

also be trained, certified, and insured or he shouldn't be allowed to do

counseling without you personally in the meeting.

> ANSWER---Maybe you or your members may think that they all have the

> proper experience but this is foolhardy. It sounds like a case of the

> blind leading the blind comforted by their own vanity and

„« self-indulgence.

> ANSWER--- The answers to many of life's questions may be found in

> scripture but untrained persons who profess knowledge are usually the

> most dangerous of all.

John Bonesteel : WE are not trained counselors simple;by because we are ordained.

In short don't try counselling unless you are trained and accredited........!

Thanks Tim for the perspective.

Douglas Southcott: The things that John Bonesteel and William Jones have both said not only do I

agree with completely but as far as I'm concerned they should be the party line.

David Lim: It does not require very good eyesight to see this has not been about me doing weddings.

On the contrary, I voluntarily gave up legal weddings in order to leave Abba Ministries and let my assemblies and congregation do God�s Will, without the bondage of Abba Ministries, and without being seen standing with or supporting these evil.

Evangelism is the duty of all Christians. Getting trained or certified to evangelise and to talk to anybody is not even Scriptural. Our Lord and the apostles never instructed that. The Samaritan woman never did that. The healed sinners and poor people never did that. Abraham, Jacob, Moses, all Kings, Job, John the Baptist, our Lord, Gospel writers, Apostles, deacons never did that.

Isaiah 30:

30:15 For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.

In matters pertaining to our Most Holy Faith, Scriptures(The Word of God) never directs or instructs anyone to buy insurance in cash for His Work. The Lord is our Fortress; in Him we have peace of mind, absolute security. Nevermind false brethren, imprisonment, persecution and unjust verdict.

No one is made perfect through some courses or training. We do not assume or assert that the mass can not be and is not hurt by trained professionals. The graduated are not, by default, educated; neither are these people deemed honest. (Meetings, arrangement, and communication with Abba Ministries demonstrated this very well.)

Ecclesiastes 12:

12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

¡@

David Lim: Having secular insurance is not any background check! Forcing all Christians who are to counsel to take certain courses, have certification and insurance annually is no background check; and is against the teachings and spirit of the Holy Bible.

I too allowed myself to be checked. I gave photos and paid $100 to Abba Ministries for their fees to check me up.

Douglas Southcott: Because we want all pastors to be able to back up what they say from the Holy Bible does not mean we are not of God or antiChrist as you claim.

David Lim: Abba Ministries did not want all pastors. Abba Ministries want all Christians who have the duty to talk to people/others to be subjected to your/ Abba Ministries� secular bondage.

Insurance does not back up any Biblical claim, Christian truth or integrity; they only foot part of any bill/law-suit.

Douglas Southcott 15-7-02 11.36am:

The only way ANYBODY should be doing counseling is if they are

trained and accredited. If someone is not both trained and accredited then

they should refer to person to someone who is. . .

I will not allow Abba Ministries or any of it's member churches to

be open to such a dangerous position simply because one person did not want

to come in line. . . Anyone doing counseling MUST be both

trained and certified or they should not be doing counseling.

Anyone who does counseling, a pastor or someone within a local body that has the pastors

consent to counsel, according to the powers that be to whom even I must

submit, will have to pass these courses and get certified. If they don't

then they should not be allowed to counsel.

If you can agree with this and work along with it fine, great, if not then your

only option is to resign from within Abba Ministries so that no other pastor

will have to assume legal responsibility for your lack of obedience and your

lack of professional training.

David Lim: Slighting all Christians their approval from God, their experience, their training, and force them to receive yours(Abba courses) as if they were nobody in the first place; Forcing them to get certification and insurance annually, is hardly the Biblical principles of backing up what one says.

David Lim: This is not about consulting Scriptures and following the Word of God. This is not about David Lim doing weddings. This is not just about pastors but all who do counseling (according to the Bible, all Christians are included.)

Douglas Southcott: And gee whiz as we would like all those who are doing counseling to be trained and certified so that they can do so properly and not do further damage through lack of knowledge is not against the Holy Bible either.

David Lim: There is the assumption that they can not do so properly right in the beginning. Ordained ministers of God and of other Churches and Ministries are slighted to be inadequate to minister right in the beginning. Perhaps Douglas so lack knowledge and training as not wanting to show us his qualification.

Douglas Southcott: Yet you continue on and on that Abba Ministries is not of God.

David Lim: I have to speak up, to admonish, to expose falsehood, to warn. These are Christian duties as watchmen and shepherds.

David Lim: I also have to turn back to the subjects in question when Douglas steered away and threw in more insult and scorn.

Douglas Southcott: That we are antiChrist simply because we say that you should obey the laws of God and man.

David Lim: Annual certification and insurance, secular measurement of credibility instead of letting Christians preach freely for God. The Bible teaches obedience to God, worship Him and serve Him alone, and you(Douglas, Delores, John, William, Abba Ministries) brought in and enforce the laws of man, instead of Christ and His Word. You are trusting secular laws and systems instead of trusting Christ and the Word, and forcing others to submit. Any instead of Christ is AntiChrist. This is the Biblical meaning of "AntiChrist".

Douglas Southcott: Whether you believe it or not that IS in the Bible.

David Lim: What directorate? Submission to unGodly organisation even when they are exposed?

Why not show us Scriptures instead. Why not stop steering away and stick with the issues instead. Why do things instead of being truthful and Christward. At least Douglas would have some Scripture to show.

Now that there is no Bible, Douglas, the unknown scholars, and Abba Ministries want to command trust and obedience?

Those who do not obey the Word are not to be obeyed or trusted by the people of God. But admonition is necessary. Reminding is necessary.

Even the Devil can quote pretext as if they are Biblical instruction.

Douglas Southcott: Each and everyone of us needs to be in submission to those over us.

Exodus 20:

Douglas Southcott: Even I submit to the Board of Directors of Abba Ministries of Canada.

David Lim: Directorate is unscriptural. They are not there in the Bible just because some want them to be there. The Church of God is not under any directorate or secular government. All overseers are under God and ought to look to Christ.

David Lim: I was not aware of this. I am sorry to have misled and been misled, and mistaught.

Now I know that Abba Ministries is unGodly and unScriptural, it would be natural, Godly and Scriptural for any Christian to be separated from such organisation that pose to be Godly and Scriptural, and are not.

¡@

Douglas Southcott: Even I am part of a church where someone leads is the Senior Pastor of that church and sit under his leadership and discipline.

David Lim: God first? I do not want to be secular, or unBiblical.

This secret church that Douglas claims he is part of is never mentioned, and offered itself for examination and fellowship. It is not known to date that Abba Ministries is under any Christian church.

Douglas Southcott: The moment anyone refuses to have a teachable spirit they are then unfit to teach others. Only those who submit are fit to lead.

Douglas Southcott: When you applied to be part of Abba Ministries of Canada you signed a legal form saying that you would take any courses or training that we believed you needed, that you would submit to the legal and Godly authority that we became when you came under us for legal covering to do weddings.

On and on about weddings!

Douglas and Abba Ministries really are of no shame and unGodly. Who cares about weddings only and all the time? Which minister ? We ought to obey God and serve Him alone.

Note again the lack of quotation/reference.

If this is what the legal form say, "to come under Abba Ministries for legal covering to do weddings", it has been a biased form for a biased denomination.

Douglas Southcott: You when the time came to submit and learn you refused.

David Lim: The time came for me to supply information, I did. The time came for me to supply information of my ministries again, I did. The time came for me to join in discussion forum, I did.

The majority has not. The time came for me to attend meeting with Douglas and John at the Holiday Inn, I did; and Douglas did not, and afford no explanation and no apology. Hiding something?

The time came for me to submit photo and annual fee, I did, and Abba Ministries has not issue membership card.

The time came for me to demand answers, and Abba Ministries did not supply them. Hiding something?

Douglas Southcott: You dug in your feet and simply would not.

Recognise this Scripture? Or just avoiding it?

David Lim: Read Scripture? Are you Abba Ministries, Douglas, John, Delores, William, not posing as some Super Apostles? Being secular is sin! Anti-Christ is sin! One slave cannot serve 2 masters!

¡@

Douglas Southcott: In simple, straight forward words the Holy Bible says that "rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft"

David Lim: In simple "PRE-TEXT"?

¡@

Douglas Southcott: Samuel I 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

David Lim: The question has always been: What is "rebellion"? To whom is this "rebellion" directed?

Who has jurisdiction in the first place?

What "stubbornness" is this?

15:24 And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.

We see even in these exchanges that Abba Ministries is not the word of the Lord.

Abba Ministries is not the commandment of the Lord.

¡@

Douglas Southcott: Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee...

¡@

Douglas Southcott: You need to pray and seek the face of the Lord.

Douglas Southcott: Then after that decide if you are out of line with what God wants or if Abba Ministries is not of God and antiChrist as you claim.

David Lim: We make our decisions with obedience to the commandment of God, with the Word of God.

I even posted the passages (not just verses here and there) to edify the brethren and expose the evil-doers.

¡@

Douglas Southcott: Examine your heart.

Douglas Southcott: Think back, who is it who purchased diplomas and papers to say that they are an engineer or some other "honorary" degree claimed?

David Lim: Who? Why change subject? Hinting on/at anyone? Who is this?

Look who is inventing? Who is aiming to hurt and harm? Who can not talk straight again?

¡@

David Lim: I never told anyone in and outside Abba Ministries that I am any engineer.

I am no scorner or mocker. I do not insult the esteemed Institutes that granted me diplomas and degrees, though money is involved.

I designed and built massage instrument. I designed and built support framework. I designed and built furniture. I initiated the design and construction of the Bastion Gate, Gloucester. I designed the spandrel panel and fire partition of Morley House, Holborn Viaduct, while working at TP Bennett Partnership. Perhaps it takes an engineer to appreciate an engineer.

I also know that Architects usually lead engineers and construction teams in building projects. I happen to have registration with the ARB. Perhaps it also takes an Architect to appreciate an Architect.

Need I say more!!

I also designed and built a Gospel web of 200Mb 2 years ago; devised and run Free VCD Ministry internationally. I am developing Restaurant Churches/Fellowship right now. I do believe just these projects would already qualify me to be known as Architect of Christian matters. Engineer? Big Deal!!

In my immediate assembly, nearly all adults have been Bible teachers. Some taught Systematic Theology. Some are Church planters. Some graduated from Theological Institutes. One brought up many Church leaders. At least half of the children had involvment in leading youth fellowship and Sunday School.

Who in his right mind would imagine assembly so developed would have a shepherd who has his degrees and papers bought; who is ignorant, untrained, and inexperienced. This is sheer defamation, sheer insulting.

And at times I am respectfully called Rev. Dr. Lim. I need not lead or shepherd with titles.

¡@

Douglas Southcott: Who is it who has consistently acted as if they do not understand when it benefits them but then says they are an engineer when they want to be seen as something bigger than life?

David Lim: Who? Why change subject? Hinting on/at anyone? Who is this?

Still not showing us what qualification the leaders of Abba Ministries have to lord over others; to lie about the lack of qualification of fellow ministers and other ordained Christians.

Changing subject just does not help any straight honest talk.

What is life? What is life size? What is bigger than life?

I have one life to lead and need not be bigger than life. Perhaps my life is big in comparison with some others.

Luckily I do not eat bigger than life meals.

Who does not understand God and the Bible? Basic Hermeneutics?

David Lim: Look who is inventing? Who is aiming to slight, to hurt and harm? Who can not talk straight again?

Douglas Southcott: Examine your heart, your faith, and your actions. Seek the face of the Lord God and as scripture says "before you take the splint out of someone else's eye take the beam out of your own".

David Lim: Always doing that. Have we not faced Abba Ministries with brotherly concerning and love in the beginning; and face them with Scriptures in large quantities to throw light into the allegation and accusation? Have we not been prudent and honest with Abba Ministries and the brethren?

Have I not posted all e-mail and communication to the brethren so as to allow them evidence to decide on the issues themselves?

Douglas Southcott: Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdeth thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

David Lim: Even the devil can quote Scriptures, such as at the time of tempting our Lord Jesus.

¡@

Douglas Southcott: Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

David Lim: See the devil quoting on Scripture. Repentanted sinners are hard to come by. Brethren out there, do not be discouraged. Just obey the Lord and trust in Him. For He will bring all goodness to completion.

Never surprise me that people who use this passage had no understanding of it. And are not prepared to repent and seek the Lord God, so as to be healed and saved.

No. It is never alright with negligence, stubborness in iniquities. Just when will the scorners repent. God and the Christians are waiting!

Douglas Southcott: and Luke 6:41 - 2

Luke 6 vv39-43:

6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

6:42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Douglas Southcott: Enough said. You will be in my prayers that the Lord open the eyes of your heart and reveal Himself to you in a greater measure of fullness and truth.

¡@

Douglas Southcott: Take care and God bless,

¡@

¡@

Douglas Southcott: Douglas Southcott, Bishop

Abba Ministries of Canada

David Lim: Just wondering who ordained Douglas Southcott and put him up as Bishop. Which Godly (so to speak) organisation have Douglas Southcott, rebelled to set up their own(so to speak in your own way and sense)?

What is covering Douglas Southcott and Abba Ministries? Money(UnBiblical of course)? Government agency(UnBiblical of course)?

Law of Corporation(UnBiblical of course)? Directorate(UnBiblical of course)?

What else are Douglas Southcott and Abba Ministries different from UCMI? What else make Douglas Southcott bigger than these brethren?

What else makes Douglas Southcott and Abba Ministries "LEGAL" in the Christian World?

What else makes Douglas Southcott and Abba Ministries "Godly" in the Christian World?

In a mindset similar to Abba Ministries, how can some folks proclaim they can and have to train and accredit other folks when they have no such training, credit, academic degree in the first place?

Who judged you fit to shepherd in the first place?

John Bonesteel : WE are not trained counselors simple;by because we are ordained.

In short don't try counselling unless you are trained and accredited........!

¡@

David Lim: And he, Douglas Southcott who tells me and the whole church that other ministers are not trained and accredited to his satisfaction, please state their academic qualification and their experience. When would they, Abba Ministries and Douglas Southcott stop inventing, slightly and pretending to be Godly shepherds?

¡@

¡@

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Hello Mr. Lim,

While you were under Abba Ministries and we allowed you to do weddings without question or investigation you considered Abba Ministries of Canada to be of God and blessed. You said you were happy to be a part of our group. Yet when concerns arose about the type of weddings you were doing as well as if what you were teaching was of God or not all of a sudden Abba Ministries is not of God etc., etc. etc. ad nausium.

Simply because we believe that every pastor should have a background check to be sure they are safe around those who are in a time of stress or crisis is not against the Holy Bible. Because we want all pastors to be able to back up what they say from the Holy Bible does not mean we are not of God or antiChrist as you claim. And gee whiz as we would like all those who are doing counseling to be trained and certified so that they can do so properly and not do further damage through lack of knowledge is not against the Holy Bible either. Yet you continue on and on that Abba Ministries is not of God. That we are antiChrist simply because we say that you should obey the laws of God and man. Whether you believe it or not that IS in the Bible.

Each and everyone of us needs to be in submission to those over us. Even I submit to the Board of Directors of Abba Ministries of Canada. Even I am part of a church where someone leads is the Senior Pastor of that church and sit under his leadership and discipline. The moment anyone refuses to have a teachable spirit they are then unfit to teach others. Only those who submit are fit to lead. When you applied to be part of Abba Ministries of Canada you signed a legal form saying that you would take any courses or training that we believed you needed, that you would submit to the legal and Godly authority that we became when you came under us for legal covering to do weddings. You when the time came to submit and learn you refused. You dug in your feet and simply would not. In simple, straight forward words the Holy Bible says that "rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft"

Samuel I 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee...

You need to pray and seek the face of the Lord. Then after that decide if you are out of line with what God wants or if Abba Ministries is not of God and antiChrist as you claim. Examine your heart. Think back, who is it who purchased diplomas and papers to say that they are an engineer or some other "honorary" degree claimed? Who is it who has consistently acted as if they do not understand when it benefits them but then says they are an engineer when they want to be seen as something bigger than life? Examine your heart, your faith, and your actions. Seek the face of the Lord God and as scripture says "before you take the splint out of someone else's eye take the beam out of your own".

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdeth thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

and Luke 6:41 - 2

Enough said. You will be in my prayers that the Lord open the eyes of your heart and reveal Himself to you in a greater measure of fullness and truth.

Take care and God bless,

Douglas Southcott, Bishop

Abba Ministries of Canada

http://www.abba.ca

-=-==-=-=-=-The following was found posted on internet 24-7-02

Pastor Rowland Richard Amos - Ordination withdrawn March 9, 2002

Chilliwack, B.C.

Pastor David L. Sponagle - Ordination revoked June 13, 2001

Magnetawan Ontario

Pastor Frits Bax - Ordination revoked as of Aug 13, 2001

Toronto Ontario

Pastor David Lim - Ordination revoked as of July 17, 2002

Toronto Ontario

Pastor James Russell - stepped down (for personal reasons)

St. Thomas Ontario

Douglas Southcott 15-7-02 11.36am:

If you can agree with this and work along with it fine, great, if not then your

only option is to resign from within Abba Ministries so that no other pastor

will have to assume legal responsibility for your lack of obedience and your

lack of professional training.

¡@

David Lim: And when you leave in obedience to God, they tell the world that you are disciplined, removed, and not fit or allowed to lead. As if they took Godly initiation!

¡@

To: Douglas Southcott

Cc: Benny Leung, Hoo-Kin; John Bonesteel; bsworld@egroups.com; Jason Choi; David M. Ford; Lu Lee; nfo@abba.ca; Jingcai Zhu

Douglas Southcott: I pray that your decision to go your own way was based on the belief that it is what God wants and not something you decided on your own.

Now, who removed who?

=-=-=-=

-----Original Message-----

From: dlim@interlog.com [mailto:dlim@interlog.com]

Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:45 AM

To: Douglas Southcott

Cc: chan nimchiu; nfo@abba.ca; Frank Mao; Jason Choi; bsworld@egroups.com; John Bonesteel; en a; Benny Leung, Hoo-Kin; 182@hongkong.com

Subject: Reply to Abba Ministries after resignation 17-07-02

¡@

Reply to Abba Ministries

Douglas Southcott: I pray that your decision to go your own way was based on the belief that it is what God wants and not something you decided on your own.

David Lim: It is Scripture based, and Divine counselled. You do not recognise that; or do you?

Douglas Southcott: Remember "that which is not of faith is sin."

David Lim: What is "faith"? What of yours is "faith"? Inventing Scriptures and doctrine again?

And what of yours is our "Most Holy Faith"? What of yours is not sin?

James 4 v15-17:

4:15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

4:16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Idolatry is sin indeed! Anti-Christ is sin!

Douglas Southcott: As you believe that you don't need to be under any sort of covering take heed to realize that even Jesus submitted to the authorities that were in His day. He submitted both to the High Priests and to the Roman Govenor.

David Lim: You are no Redeemer of mankind. You are not the lamb of God. Anti-Christ is sin!

The Bible never teaches subjection to somebody who are your equals for covering.

The Bible never teaches subjection to secular government for spiritual and religious covering.

The Bible never teaches subjection to Christians for covering.

Christians do not love fellow Christians by enslaving them.

David Lim: You want to avoid reading our previous communication and then put words into my mouth?

I do not believe we do not need to be under any sort of covering. We do believe we have to follow God and worship Him alone(Matt4v10; Luke4v8; Deut6v13). We do believe we have to obey God rather than men (Acts 5v29). We believe we have covering in God. Christ is our Rock, our Shelter, our Salvation, our Fortress (Isa30v15).

Acts 5v29: Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Read Scripture? Are you not posing as some Super Apostles? Anti-Christ is sin!

Read Esther and Daniel.

The Holy family obeyed God and fled from Herod the Great. It is scriptural to flee from unGodly jurisdiction.

Did the Judeans subject themselves to Roman rule, or were they looking for liberation, their Messiah, their King, their State?

Did the Priests and Herod submit to the prophesy (word from God) of John the Baptist?

Did Christ submit to Satan?

Did Christ submit to the Priests, Pharisees, Sadducees, and teachers of the Law?

Christ was arrested secretly at night and treated as a criminal; not a law-abiding citizen.

Did Christ just talk and answer Pilate when asked?

Did Christ teach His disciples to submit to the High Priests and Roman Authorities to stop preaching the Way - the Good News - Salvation?

Did Steven submit to the Jews?

Douglas Southcott: He knew that all authority is placed there by God Himself and therefore submitted Himself willingly even unto death.

David Lim: Matt22v29; John5v27; Acts 5v29 Who do you want to deceive with your unBiblical doctrine?

Speaking for Christ now? Inventing Scripture and doctrine again?

Christ never submit Himself to Satan, or secular government. His Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom.

John19 v11: Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Christ pointed out that these government authorities are sinners, instead of being righteous.

Notice that this is speaking against the mode of government in Romans 13v3: For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Christ does what is right and did not gain praise from the priests, scribes ¡K. and the Roman government.

Your pre-textual doctrine do not work when Christians turn to the Bible.

Romans 13v4: . . . he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Well, Christ did evil? Pilate being righteous? The priests being righteous?

Who can trust any course produced by yourselves as Biblical or righteous?

Christ did not just answer when asked. He kept silent. Talk about civil and religious obedience?

Did Christ wanted to be counted as unrighteous in order for the Just to die for the unjust? Or did he obey in order to die a just death? Was He subjecting Himself to the Father�s Will in the first place?

Note that the prophets do not prophesy according to the request or will of the kings. Talk about civil and religious obedience?

Douglas Southcott: God Word says to "obey the laws of God and man" failure to submit to Godly authority whether that within Abba Ministries or that of the governments of Canada and of Ontario amounts to rebellion and scripture says that "rebellion is the same as the sin of witchcraft"

David Lim: Look who is creating now?

You have for long proved yourselves secular, unHoly and unGodly. Repent while there is time. God loves you all!!! The governments of Canada and of Ontario simply are not Holy or Godly; they are but secular.

We are slaves of God, purchased by the blood of Christ. Naturally we rebel against darkness and evil. We are not under bondage of Sin and Satan anymore. We swore allegiance to God alone! Notice that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a very grave sin.

The Lord says: Be Holy, for I AM Holy.

What has light with darkness? Christ with Anti-Christ?

David Lim: It is written � One slave cannot serve 2 masters; he will hate one and love the other. Matt6v24 Care so much about money, your house and properties?

You who (told by your colleague and not restrained, rebuked or punished by you) can spend $680 a day for legal matters do not have enough money for lawsuit?

I have set an example for you by discarding weddings and payment that come with it. It only takes an obedient heart to God and a loving heart to God and men. I pray God you have true love of God in you all.

David Lim: Remember the 10 Commandments?

Exodus 20:

20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

David Lim: Where in Scriptures is it written that Christians have to obey God and men? Equally? We shall have no other gods before the Lord our God! Where is it written that any man should make images of any likeness, may it be institutes, agencies, bishops, Regional Overseers, Directors, Governmental agencies; submit to them or serve them � their will and their liking??

How can you love God and men, when you do not love God, obey Him and love men, bearing false witness to them and enslave them??

How do you command submission when you strayed away from The Way? Repent!

Douglas Southcott: Take heed that no matter where you go in God's kingdom you, like myself and all others, need to submit in order to grow.

David Lim: Subject and submit yourselves to God, and serve Him alone. May all Glory and Honor be to Him!

To obey God is better than sacrifice to God and men.

Submitting to Anti-christs is no Christian growth. Submitting to secular world is no Godliness.

Douglas Southcott: Without submission God will not use anyone to the fullest that He could if they were in submission.

David Lim: Submission to evil? Joining hands with evil-doers? With liars? With scorners? With the ungodly? With unScriptural religious people?

Inventing Scripture and doctrine again?

Douglas Southcott: Take heed to watch your heart and hold fast to the faith.

David Lim: Thank you and you.

Douglas Southcott: Take heed - remember that "pride cometh before a fall"

David Lim: Speaking to yourselves? What pride and sin did you have by not respecting ministers (ordained and anointed) of UCMI? What God given right have you declaring their ordination void and unrespectable, and their ministers untrained/ignorant of the things of God, and apply your own ordination as if they are no pastor/overseer?

All you can grant in reality is "Canadian Licence to solemnise Marriage" (not even issued by yourselves, but by secular government).

Shepherds are not made overseers for God because they happen to have Canadian Licence to solemnise Marriage. Ordination is not made effective only if some secular organisation approve of it. Rather, seek the approval from the Most High God.

Note that such governmental ruling and certification is not Scriptural. You have been acting unscripturally and boasting of such authority.

It is a Chinese slang used by the triad societies to tell people to "Take heed" repeatedly when harm is conceived(the intention). I pray you did not know that.

Douglas Southcott: Take care and walk circumspectly redeeming the time.

David Lim: God willing. Will do that. I redeemed time by acting on the 17-7-02. Some brethren would like to act later, not that you are found or seen " right", but they want to grant you more time to justify yourselves, to correct, rectify yourselves, and repent.

"Take heed" and then "Take care"! Double triad slang? I pray not.

Douglas Southcott: I will pray for you that God uses you for His kingdom and that He bless you with greater knowledge of Himself and more of His presence.

David Lim: Thank you. Prayer will be more beneficial after repentance. Hard to be in His presence without repentance.

Douglas Southcott: I will notify the Marriage Office that you have resigned from Abba Ministries as of today.

David Lim: Thank you for reminding us.

Douglas Southcott: Note that if you had any weddings planned for anytime after midnight tonight, Wednesday July 17, 2002, that those marriages will not be honored by the Provincial Marriage Office because you have resigned your pastoral position within Abba Ministries and it was that position that provided your covering and your pastoral marriage number.

David Lim: Oh! We are very scared, aren�t we? Thanks for reminding us this only important fact. Actually the Government told me a different story.

Please note that we would rather serve God than men. I would not put my brethren in bondage and to do evil(men�s work), and be seen by the world to be doing evil for some selfish reason of doing wedding with a licence through Abba. You ought to be ashame of yourselves that this is the big headline and ministry of your Ministries.

Christians ought to be reminded that respected ministers, yes even good ministers, do weddings illegally. Bishop Valentine is a famous example. You call him a wizard?

Separation of Church and State calls for ministers to wed lovers and the State to leave them alone.

Douglas Southcott: Take care and God bless.

David Lim: Yes, yes, by now we ought to get the message. Take care yourselves. Satan is in your hearts and in your deeds. Your deeds speak out loud and clear.

Where was your respect in the first place?

More effective blessing after repentence, don�t you think?

Douglas Southcott: I do hope you can find some group that will extend covering for the road that you want to lead the church that you pastor down and for the way you believe that you are to pastor it.

David Lim: I pray you will be Godly and Holy on the road. You never extended any covering. You never treat other ministers and ministries (eg: UCMI) as your equals. You tried to subject them to your dictation and slavery. You try to ordain them your way and disregard their ordination and abilities/training right in the very beginning, in the very first place.

Delores: If you allow say, Jeff Wilbur, to counsel with your knowledge and blessing

then he is acting as a legal representative of your church. so Jeff should

also be trained, certified, and insured or he shouldn't be allowed to do

counseling without you personally in the meeting.

> ANSWER---Maybe you or your members may think that they all have the

> proper experience but this is foolhardy. It sounds like a case of the

> blind leading the blind comforted by their own vanity and

„« self-indulgence.

> ANSWER--- The answers to many of life's questions may be found in

> scripture but untrained persons who profess knowledge are usually the

> most dangerous of all.

John Bonesteel : WE are not trained counselors simple;by because we are ordained.

In short don't try counselling unless you are trained and accredited........!

Thanks Tim for the perspective.

Douglas Southcott: The things that John Bonesteel and William Jones have both said not only do I

agree with completely but as far as I'm concerned they should be the party line.

David Lim: In your arrogance you regard all to be ignorant and untrained, not creditable, not able to perform their calling without your dictation, grip and impartation, and secular covering of insurance.

See how you go round Scriptures to voice secular concerns. See how you have left Bible verses out and shifted your secular qualification in.

The colleges you got your degrees and training from have produced wolves and satans.

Douglas Southcott: Douglas Southcott, Bishop

David Lim: Just wondering who ordained you and put you up as Bishop. Which Godly (so to speak) organisation have you rebelled to set up your own(so to speak in your own way and sense)?

What is covering you? Money(UnBiblical of course)? Government agency(UnBiblical of course)?

Law of Corporation(UnBiblical of course)? Directorate(UnBiblical of course)?

What else are you different from UCMI? What else make you bigger than these brethren?

What else makes you "LEGAL" in the Christian World?

What else makes you "Godly" in the Christian World?

What training you have to make you feel or think that you are proficient in any way, and that others are not?

In a mindset similar to yours, how can some folks proclaim they can and have to train and accredit other folks when they have no such training, credit, academic degree in the first place?

Who judged you fit to shepherd in the first place?

John Bonesteel : WE are not trained counselors simple;by because we are ordained.

In short don't try counselling unless you are trained and accredited........!

Got that? Well you agree to that and think this should be the party line. OK you lot, state your academic qualification in counseling, in ministries, in Theology.

And you who tell me and the whole church that other ministers are not trained and accredited to your satisfaction, please state their academic qualification and their experience. When would you stop inventing, slightly and pretending to be Godly shepherds?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Hello David,

I pray that your decision to go your own way was based on the belief that it is what God wants and not something you decided on your own. Remember "that which is not of faith is sin." As you believe that you don't need to be under any sort of covering take heed to realize that even Jesus submitted to the authorities that were in His day. He submitted both to the High Priests and to the Roman Govenor. He knew that all authority is placed there by God Himself and therefore submitted Himself willingly even unto death. God Word says to "obey the laws of God and man" failure to submit to Godly authority whether that within Abba Ministries or that of the governments of Canada and of Ontario amounts to rebellion and scripture says that "rebellion is the same as the sin of witchcraft" Take heed that no matter where you go in God's kingdom you, like myself and all others, need to submit in order to grow. Without submission God will not use anyone to the fullest that He could if they were in submission. Take heed to watch your heart and hold fast to the faith. Take heed - remember that "pride cometh before a fall"

Take care and walk circumspectly redeeming the time. I will pray for you that God uses you for His kingdom and that He bless you with greater knowledge of Himself and more of His presence.

I will notify the Marriage Office that you have resigned from Abba Ministries as of today. Note that if you had any weddings planned for anytime after midnight tonight, Wednesday July 17, 2002, that those marriages will not be honored by the Provincial Marriage Office because you have resigned your pastoral position within Abba Ministries and it was that position that provided your covering and your pastoral marriage number.

Take care and God bless. I do hope you can find some group that will extend covering for the road that you want to lead the church that you pastor down and for the way you believe that you are to pastor it.

Douglas Southcott, Bishop

Abba Ministries of Canada

http://www.abba.ca

-----Original Message-----

From: dlim@interlog.com [mailto:dlim@interlog.com]

Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 6:43 PM

To: Douglas Southcott

Cc: Benny Leung, Hoo-Kin; John Bonesteel; bsworld@egroups.com; Jason Choi; David M. Ford; Lu Lee; nfo@abba.ca; Jingcai Zhu

Subject: Sever all links with Abba Ministries - 17-7-02

I (David Lim) had presented your matters to the attention of my assemblies and congregations; and after much Bible studies, prayers and fellowship, we concluded that Abba Ministries of Canada is unscriptural, unholy, secular, inventive, scornful, and unfashionable.

We therefore do sever all links with Abba Ministries of Canada, and all other forms of this ministry with any of its representative, as from this day 17 July 2002 on, in accordance with the directives of the Holy Christian Bible.

Our anointing is from God and of God. You keep your own secular ordination and rules.

We would rather obey God than men.

Perfect love casts out fear.

The end does not justify the means. And it never does.

Training, directorate, College, degree, certification, and insurance are all unBiblical in the Holy Christian Bible and Christian Church; not that we do not have qualification, degree, experience, and training.

2Timothy3v16:

3:16 All scripture is God breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Yours are not studying and understanding all scripture. And all scripture does not include just some courses, certificates, directorate, college, degree, institutional approval, annual renewal and insurance.

Your one or two courses (may it be 3 or more in the future), the degrees and certification/qualification you hold/obtained, simply do not perfect any man(including yourselves).

Matthew28 : (The Great Commission)

28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The God given qualification for all Christians to preach, witness Christ/God, to speak to all nations is that all power is given to Christ Jesus. Not that they are trained or having done certain courses.

None of your courses (in fact, any course) and degrees/qualification, credit, and insurance can be teaching all Christians to observe all things whatsoever Christ Jesus has commanded Christians.

Notice the complete lack of courses, and secular qualification mentioned in the Great Commission.

Our Lord guarantees His presence. Your courses and qualification do not.

Think of the multitude you hurt with your false witness and your courses/training. We wish to have no part in this.

Evangelism is the duty of all Christians. Getting trained or certified to evangelise and to talk to anybody is not even Scriptural. Our Lord and Apostles never instructed that. The Samaritan woman never did that. The healed sinners and poor people never did that. Abraham, Jacob, Moses, all Kings, Job, John the Baptist, our Lord, Gospel writers, Apostles, deacons never did that.

Christ says in Acts 1:

1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The Holy Spirit and His baptism is certainly not represented by your courses, certification, and qualification, and is not insurance and annual renewal. This power is not inventing lesser qualification and ability of your Christian brethren and Churches, for you to lord over them.

We think you are wrong in advocating that ability, recognition and power and authority come from institutes, training, certification, and courses from those who do not even pass integrity test themselves. (I would not even let/allow you to get near my family. Counseling us is a non-starter for you. Your qualification does not matter a bit.)

Isaiah 30:

30:15 For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.

In matters pertaining to our Most Holy Faith, Scriptures(The Word of God) never directs or instructs anyone to buy insurance in cash for His Work. The Lord is our Fortress; in Him we have peace of mind, absolute security. Nevermind false brethren, imprisonment, persecution and unjust verdict.

No one is made perfect through some courses or training. We do not assume or assert that the mass can not be and is not hurt by trained professionals. The graduated are not, by default, educated; neither are these people deemed honest. (Meetings, arrangement, and communication with you demonstrated this very well.)

Ecclesiastes 12:

12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Hello David,

I would rather have said these things in a private conversation but

since you have raised the issue here in public in this way then I will

simply answer you here.

I have spent the best part of yesterday and today talking with

Delores, praying, searching in the Word, etc. I have sent a few emails from

Delores place as well trying to discuss certain things with people. The

things that John Bonesteel and William Jones have both said not only do I

agree with completely but as far as I'm concerned they should be the party

line.

The only way ANYBODY should be doing counseling is if they are

trained and accredited. If someone is not both trained and accredited then

they should refer to person to someone who is. If you as a pastor would

allow just anyone and everyone to counsel others you are opening yourself,

the church you pastor, those within that church as well as each and every

church within Abba Ministries right up to a class action lawsuit. They can

take your house, and everything else you own, both now and for the rest of

your life and have the courts decide that you as a pastor allowed this and

that Abba Ministries as a whole allowed this and then each and every church

is gone simply because one untrained person, no matter how well meaning or

good intentioned, gave them advise that lead to a marriage breakup or lose

of a job or whatever.

I will not allow Abba Ministries or any of it's member churches to

be open to such a dangerous position simply because one person did not want

to come in line. Between the advise of other pastors, my wife, the BoD, the

insurance companies, the Corporations Directorate, Revenue Canada, and more,

ALL of them hold the same position. Anyone doing counseling MUST be both

trained and certified or they should not be doing counseling. As such we are

developing courses, in conjunction with college professionals that I have

known for years. Every pastor within Abba Ministries will HAVE TO do at

least these two courses and get certified with a national group like the

naiic. Their website is at http://christbasedcounseling.org/ Anyone who does

counseling, a pastor or someone within a local body that has the pastors

consent to counsel, according to the powers that be to whom even I must

submit, will have to pass these courses and get certified. If they don't

then they should not be allowed to counsel.

Anyone can console others, can sympathize with them over what

they've been through. It is my heartfelt desire that we all should console

others and help them to get through the things they are dealing with in a

healthy way. It takes alot of heart and alot of guts to work through, for

example, the death of a child with someone and it is best done by someone

who's been through it. Believe me I've been there. I've had to bury more

than one of my own children and having people, no matter how well meaning

come up to you and say "I'm sorry" or "I know how you feel" is such a crock.

Unless you've been there yourself you don't know how I feel. As for saying

"I'm sorry" the first thought in my head at that time is "why did you have

something to do with it?" All you feel is the pain and the loss. All you

want to do is scream or cry or both - been there, done that and believe me

it hurts like hell. Those who've been there are the only ones that should be

consoling others who are there now.

As for counseling we are getting courses ready and I want each

pastor within Abba Ministries to send in a list as to who they want under

their covering to be allowed to counsel including themselves. These people

will be REQUIRED to pass the courses and get certified. If not then they

will not be able to do counseling with the blessing of Abba Ministries. If

you can agree with this and work along with it fine, great, if not then your

only option is to resign from within Abba Ministries so that no other pastor

will have to assume legal responsibility for your lack of obedience and your

lack of professional training. I am sorry if that is a harsh statement but I

would rather upset one or two pastors or counselors than to have how many

hundreds of lives damaged by untrained people.

Think about it, pray about it and then let me know your decision.

Take care and God bless,

Douglas Southcott, Bishop

Abba Ministries of Canada

http://www.abba.ca

-----Original Message-----

From: dlim@interlog.com [mailto:dlim@interlog.com]

Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:21 PM

To: Abba-Pastors@topica.com

Subject: Re: multiple questions

Whose ANSWER is this?

I hope this is not the official answer of ABBA. Would Doug. please verify.

This is a very poor trial and offensive and divisive.

Should I take this very lightly and just leave it as a reply of a brother?

David Lim

----- Original Message -----

From: "Pastor William Jones" <rockman@ntl.sympatico.ca>

To: <Abba-Pastors@topica.com>

Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 6:43 PM

Subject: multiple questions

> -----Original Message-----

> From: dlim@interlog.com [mailto:dlim@interlog.com]

>

> How would a church be covered when all Christians are priests,

> counselling Who so ever approaches them?

>

> ANSWER---A church would more than likely have to submit a list of those

> who they wish to have covered under the insurance or it would be a

> blanket policy which would cover all. It is very foolish if not

> dangerous for any person not trained for counseling to engage in such

> practice for even the smallest mistake could have far reaching

> circumstances for either of the parties involved.

>

> In my assembly, all adults are in fact counsellors with experience as

> well.So far no body in the congregation expresses any desire for

> certification or insurance coverage.

>

> ANSWER---Maybe you or your members may think that they all have the

> proper experience but this is foolhardy. It sounds like a case of the

> blind leading the blind comforted by their own vanity and

> self-indulgence. " MY ASSEMBLY" shouldn't that be "OUR" assembly ? I

> would suggest that they do indeed seek the proper credentials and

> insurance or else if they and yourself are ever sued you would be torn

> apart in court. Did you explain the ramifacations of not being insured

> or certified or are you one that sits back and doesn't want to rock the

> boat with new ideas."COMPLACENCY"

>

> I do not mind having insurance coverage for myself, if the cost is not

> high - say within $100.

>

> ANSWER---What price do you put on the rest of your life, the stability

> of family and the continuance of His ministry

>

> But we must not put Christians down as immature laymen, just because

> they do not have insurance coverage or not certified.

>

> ANSWER--- I have not heard of any person being put down or called

> immature because they are not certified or insured but I would suggest

> that anyone who does counseling be prepared to meet the consequences if

> they are not. I would not want to be counseled by some person who only

> means well but does not have a clue of what my needs are and how to help

> me in the long term. The road to hell is paved with the best of

> intentions.The answers to many of life's questions may be found in

> scripture but untrained persons who profess knowledge are usually the

> most dangerous of all.

>

> Bureaucracy is also dangerous in the long run, inducing complacency, and

> twisted sense of extra church extra congregational overseeing

> legislating bodies.

>

> ANSWER---Bureaucracy only becomes complacent when the members involved

> cease to be informed and included in the day to day affairs of whichever

> church or ministry they are a part of. It becomes dangerous when the

> decisions to be made are not carried by the majority and left to the few

> due to the complacency of its members. Maybe the pastor, reverend etc

> of that congregation should look at his own way of inspiring his members

> to be more involved in the operation of the church or ministry so this

> does not happen.

>

> Also questions concerning how many denominations in and outside Canada

> encourage such insurance or stipulate one ought to be examined and

> considered.

>

> ANSWER---I really would not be to concerned how many others have

> insurance or certification. I would be more interested in having our

> house in proper order so things are the way He would approve of.

>

> Professional indemnity insurance is normally a very very heavy burden

> Something not to be encouraged.

>

> ANSWER---I carry two million in liability insurance and contrary to

> being a burden it gives one peace of mind knowing that should some

> unfortunate circumstance arise we would not be at peril in losing all

> that the members have worked for and supported. We shall be able to

> continue in His ministry. It is not that expensive considering what the

> other consequences could be.

>

>

> Pastor William Jones

> TIMMINS STREET REACH

> Helping others through kindness of thought and deed

>

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