Baptism - Biblical and non-biblical views
This article aims to illustrate some views on baptism (a vast subject); and is not yet exhaustive. Readers are welcomed to drop me emails on topics concerning baptism they have in mind for my edition in the future.
Question: Is Baptism needed for salvation?
Let us look at
Titus Ch3 v5-7:v5
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,v6
whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,v7
that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
D: If baptism is regarded as a deed, the salvation of God, mentioned in v5, is not dependent on it.
D: It is not the water of baptism that regenerate and renew the sinner/outsider/unbeliever to become christian and to qualify him/her for eternal life (v6), but by the Holy Spirit.
D: As Jesus Christ is described as the Living Water and His representative on Earth is the Holy Spirit, Baptising (being dipped, being immersed, being coated, imputed righteousness) into (Greek term - eis) Christ and into the Kingdom of God by the baptism of water and the Spirit is related to the works of the Holy Spirit of God/Christ, and not by the physical water.
D: If baptism is for entering into eternal life, v7 tells us that we are justified by His grace through any righteous action we may have taken. Any righteous action alone does not contribute credit for entering into eternal life.
Subject: Re: (MCD) Baptism> [ The questioner (in green) does not want her name and quotation to be known. Words have been altered. Please check mcd archives for original words. ]
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[MCD: 98041702083329133]Questioner: Does a Christian still receive paradise/eternal life if he or she is not baptized?
D: Many have raised this question, mainly because baptism is thought of as the pastport to Heaven.
Nowhere in the bible is baptism portraited in this way.
Baptism is a declaration of belonging (Ac 19v3). Baptism is a preparation for what is to come (Ac 19v4). People are baptising into what they are to believe.
Getting into (Greek term - eis) is referring to process instead of deed.Christians are baptising believers in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, into the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (eg: Matt 28v19)
This is misread in English to be just baptising in the name of...
Mark 16v16 put it that baptism can be accompanied with belief and salvation; however, the disbelieved shall be condemned regardless of baptism. (Such clarity of exposition is possible only if each word of scriptures is treated with equal serious respect. Disbelief of any portion of scripture would remove the foundation of any valid literal interpretation of anything revealed.)
[ Roman Catholic (herein designated as RC in red) and questioner (in green) do not want their names and quotation shown here, therefore words have been altered/rewritten. Please check original from mcd archives.]
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>>[MCD: 9804172018446204]RC: Firstly, I'm not sure that a person who has not been baptized can rightfully be called a Christian.
D: There was the thief crucified next to Christ who was promised paradise even without baptism of water. (Luke 23vv39-43)
Did this thief not follow Christ?In Acts we read that the believers/learners were first called Christians at Antioch (Acts 11v26).
Believing and having been baptised with water is not the same thing.Questioner: Who must perform the baptism? Can any believer do this? I'm asking because I was never baptized by a religious leader...pastor, minister, priest and so on ...my mother baptized me when I was a baby...I asked her about this and she told me anybody may perform the baptism...
D: Anybody can perform baptism of water. There was Philip baptising believers (Acts 8vv12-3) and the eunuch (Acts8vv36-8).
D: By the Ana-baptist tradition - any believer can lead others to Christ, therefore, they can also carry out the act of baptising believers into Christ.
Ana-baptism is of the transformed faith, and did not affiliate with the reformed faith. Therefore is separated from the Catholic tradition. Hence has been much persecuted. Evangelicalism has its root in Lutheranism, being part of the reformed tradition, would regard the Catholic churches as legitimate christian churches, therefore carry on with errors brought forth by the Catholic tradition. (In reality, they are not born again; just grow again with the evil heritage of the past. If it were new wine, the old wine-skin would have bursted.)
D: The Apostles (apostolos) are people sent by the commissioner (Christ) to bring the good news (oi evangelion) to others. Therefore, those who received the commission and to perform it would do the same as the apostles have performed.
RC>: How come Muslims do not appear to seek baptism as their prophet Jesus taught?
Questioner>: What is baptism supposed to do? I have never been clear on this.... ?
D: Baptism is a sign(a witness), and a pledge of believers in following God with a desire to repent from their sins - hence a baptism of repentance.
Baptism of/by fire also emphasise witness and repentance and striving with Christ.
Baptism of the Spirit emphasise receiving the Spirit who aid believers in their living on Earth. The Spirit being dipped (bapto)/getting into the lives of the receivers, aiding them in their way to grow into the likeness of Christ.
And being immersed into the Spirit of Christ to experience God in the midst of His providence.Gifts of the Spirit (charismata) are abilities bestowed upon believers to witness Christ and to lead a life glorifying God.
The subjects of witness, repentance and leading a life acceptable to God are repeatedly emphasised and clarified.
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RC: Baptism is a sacrament. So, it is preferable that it be done by the clergy; but in cases of emergency or unavailability of the clergy then it is absolutely acceptable to be done by a lay person.
D: A sacrament is an doctrinal term. A sacrament involves receiving grace by the performance of certain set ritual.
However, nowhere in the Bible is baptism of water (a Roman Catholic/Anglican/Catholic sacrament) portraited as imparting grace to the believers. It is a sign of obedience (Sometimes referred to as the water of obedience).
Questioner: Ah... I would like to get my mother to join us in this discussion:) As far as I know she herself baptized me because she didn't have any respect for the clergy...she has repeatedly told me that there are mainly hypocrites in the church (she almost never attends any kind of organized religious service).
RC: Miss, it sounds as if she has problems with certain people, not the faith itself. You wouldn't want me to condemn the whole of Islam/your faith merely because a few Muslims went and blew someone up, right? Same idea.
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>[MCD: 98041802253010764]RC: Miss, it sounds as if she has problems with particular people, not the faith per se. You wouldn't like me condemning the whole of Islam simply because a few Muslims went and blew somebody up, right? Same sort of thing.
Questioner: I think that's a fair statement....she doesn't have anything against Christianity....I think it was the very conservative Protestant sect that she was raised in; that soured her on organizational Christinity....however...she does seem to favor Catholicism... since she loves Father Benedict Groeschel(sp?)...
D: Are you certained there is no hypocrite in the Roman Catholic church while there are hypocrites in the very conservative Protestant sect? How do you come to know that?
What sect is this? Not even a denomination?
How come the Roman Catholic Church is not organizational and the other sect is?
How come she only loves one clergy?
How come you know the churches/sects and the distribution of hypocrites and yet do not know their doctrines, sacrament and difference?How come she baptised you rather than bringing you to a RC clergy if she favor Catholicism?
Is she or are you sure you may enter paradise having been baptised with water?
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> > [MCD: 98041802214410708][ Ahhmed (in green) is a Muslim on mcd who does not yet mind having his identity and words exposed. ]
Ahhmed: Prior to the regular prayers/salaat, Muslims are required to perform an ablution with clean water, washing the arms, face, head, and feet. The prayer recited after the ablution translates follows:
"O Allah, make me of those who repent of their sins, and make me of those who are pure of heart and mind". I think this prayer makes a connection between the physical and the spiritual that you may have been looking for.
Baptism and other ritual/symbolic purifications do not just make the connection between the physical and the spiritual. Water does have the effect of freshening the mind, and making it ready for contemplation (of the Divine). Also, just as water purifies the body, prayer to God has a purifying effect on the soul. I know what I have written is somewhat disjointed, but I am feeling sleepy, and am yet to perform my prayers, so I hope that the water I use for ablution really does help to wake me up a bit :-).
D: The Islamic ritual for purification bears similarity to the ritual of cleansing in the Old Testament.
Water from a life/running source is poured over the body such as hands and feet, and items such as plates and they are then declared cleansed and are ritually clean.
A container of water having any part of the body or items dipped or immersed into the water is pronounced unclean, as the unclean body has defiled it.
This notion makes the idea of immersion of the Baptists unacceptable.
Most often Baptists perform their ritual of water Baptism by immersing the believers in a pool/tank of water. Hardly a life/running source; as the pool is plugged to conserve water.
Hence, the pool of water is unclean as soon as the first believer steps into it.
Cleansing with ritually unclean water?
RC: Greetings and peace be with you - Ahhmed,
RC: I was aware of the ritual abolutions with water before Islamic prayer. This would be more akin to the sacrament of reconciliation ( penance, or confession if you will ), more so than Baptism. Also, at the entrance in the majority of Catholic churches, there is a font of holy water we bless ourselves with prior to our worship service. I believe this ought to be similar to the abolutions you talked about. I just thought I need to point this out.
May God's blessings be yours...
D: Well, Muslims are not baptised like Christians. Without a Christian Baptism; and without a Roman Catholic Baptism, do Roman Catholics really think that they are going to the same paradise?
And yet we see here, that the Roman Catholic blessed this Muslim. Salvation and passport to Catholic Heaven not included, perhaps.
D: Notice that RCs draw a cross on their foreheads with the water in the font that holds no running water. This is a break with the tradition of the Old Testament.
These little fonts of water are kept for some lengthy period, being adjusted to room temperature. Hardly refreshing to the physical body.
Same amount of water is commonly used for RC Baptism. Hardly refreshing to the physical body.
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