In this era we have E-Church, or Internet Church.

What is this? How Scriptural is this?

I would give some description of my own E-Church ministry.

First of all, to start a ministry is to have a calling of God for me, or for many ministers a dissatisfaction with existing ministries/churches. In some ways, we are saying that the existing ministries are not good enough, encompassing enough, farreaching enough.

And this is true.

E-church is 24/7 ministries, fulfiling the requirement of the Tent of David. It is witnessing the body of Christ, a very substantial network.

Cleaning up and tidying up time is virtually made redundant. People are continually connected via sister sites and mirror sites. Down time can be virtually eliminated.

We are talking of networks. The body of Christ is networks, and never just one local church.

God gives us personal ministries. God calls all who have perception(having ear to hear) to heed His calling, His Great Commission(Commandment). Not just preaching the Gospel, but to baptise believers into the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is to teach them all we have and know. This is a lifelong mission and vocation. Joy of a life-time. E-church affords continuous teaching resources. It is filled with data banks and links. It may have many sermon recordings. Referencing is reasonable.

I am called to reach out, and to reach many. I am given co-workers to enable hi-tech and widespread ministries. I am given special talent to understand the truth of God and write up many doctrine and ministries. I am given giga web site so to do. Packages of information are sent via mailing systems. The web is not the only platform E-churches minister to people. I am given a measure of love, health, and patience.

I am not given massive local congregation(though I just preached live to over 20,000 people in Pakistan, and my representative in Africa has just reported a harvest of 500 souls in their most recent outreach � Sept 2004). I am not given rich brethren who can financially support me, to mission, summits, to fly around to churches overseas(but God has let me see and live with thousands of brethren I have). I am not given church buildings and office blocks. I am not given swimming pools, libraries and gymns. I am not given lecture halls, cinema, and sanctuaries. And I can still pray with many.

So I/we do/deal with whatever is entrusted to me/us. We are to be faithful servants/stewards of God. We are not to be what we are not, and to use what is not given, neglecting what is given.

Certainly we have great joy with what is already entrusted to us.

An internet church aims to be worldwide, bringing the Gospel and the church of Christians/believers to the corners and edges of this World, wherever radio and electrical signals may reach. The internet can be accessed via satellites as well as electrical cables and optical fibres. Wherever you have computer access or mechanical access to the internet, you may reach and join the church community to worship God, praise Him, offer your sacrifices such as prayers, singings, relating signals, sending pictures, videos and articles, chatting, human interaction, send donation, encouraging, blessing and binding evil spirits.

E-church is 24/7 ministries. It can minister anywhere at anytime without getting tired. It does not have frequent close-down time/schedule for renovation and cleanup.

E-church is global worldwide ministries. It reaches the 4 corners of the world.

E-church pays little to no land/property tax, and is very cost effective. It can have mirror site and duplication. It may have many portal and entrance. One may exit in virtually no time.

E-church can reach those who are not healthy to move around, or to meet other living matter(problems of allergies). No benches or pews. No disturbance of cell-phones and pagers.

E-church can reach those who are under persecution and cannot worship openly.

E-church can reach those who are inaccessible by traffic and common travel means.

E-church can reach those who are lonely, locked up. It can link many cells together.

E-church can inspire people/believers to do greater and better things.

E-church offers material support, data support, spiritual support, and mental support.

No bad breathe and bad handshake.

It is what some wake up to from big dreams.

The internet church has its beginning and foundation in internet; but is not restricted to internet. Physical churches and ministries actually get started and linked to it. Information get passed around via snail mail(postal mail), telephone; and donation get moved around via telebanking, paypal and courier.

It is a ministry of imagination and aspiration. It is a ministry of love and obedience to God.

There is a part for you as well. There within is Christ Jesus our Lord and Redeemer.

D.Lim: All I care is God, His commission in the Bible, His revelation, His love and calling.

What can the righteous do, if the foundation is ruined?

God is the initiation and the renewing.

God offers and delivers the inspiration.

God is the Enabler.

D.Lim: No face to face by Noah, Samson, Gideon, Moses, Samuel, Nehemiah, Hosea, and many others with any congregation when they were commanded to get certain things done. They did not start with any local congregation. Saul did not. Philip did not start that way before, and after meeting the eunuch. Priscila and Aquila did not bring Paul to their local congregation. Apollos was not taken to a local congregation for explanation first. Peter at Joppa did not have a congregation with the vision and reached the gentiles with congregation. The apostle John did not live with local congregation. No emphasis of congregation with the 4 horsemen, the false prophet, the Anti-Christ. The 2 prophets in Revelation are not described to go around with congregation.

Prophets seek God and not congregation.

Jesus prayed alone. The disciples of Jesus stayed with Jesus instead of seeking local congregation all the time. They met with other believers at houses whenever possible.

Are loners serving God? Was Deborah? Was Ruth? Was Isaiah? Was Hosea? Was Nehemiah? Was Malachi? Was John the Baptist? Was Saul when he retreated to Arabia? Was Ananias when he went to see Saul? Why not meet up and go along with his local congregation?

You see, God has plans other than local congregation.

Christianity is not measured by congregation.

In e-church you meet up with the whole World. The whole world has become a global village; as local as a village(very small and reachable. And villagers gossip a lot).

Are you talking to your parents on the phone when you call them by phone? Or are you imagining things? Does the phone allow real contact and interaction and transmission of love a care, or is it just virtual and unacceptable?

When you send/mail checks to pay your bills, do you actually pay your bills or is that virtual?

When you play games with TV hosts or radio hosts via the phone, were they all fabrication? Can you actually win/loss prices? Do you or do they cease to exist? Can you hear the hosts or yourself if you turn on the TV or radio? Is your voice from the broadcast relay a fabrication?

Do you interact with God when you pray? No physical contact! How come you are praying God? How come you are loving God? How come you are making contact with God?

Is your brother only physical and not spiritual, that you can not and must not contact them when he or she is farther than a house away?

Can you not share Holy Communion via the phone or internet?

Must you smell and touch and make eye contact with a physical pastor or leader at each church meeting/fellowship?

Did the Apostle Paul(ie:Rm1v7), Jude, James, Peter(ie:2Pet1v1), John the Elder write to all local churches with their letters and instruction and greetings? Or did they just write and contacted their local congregation? Did they just conducted subordinate work? Is the Bible subordinate to local church life?

1John is not about going to(attending) local church or any local fellowship. It is a universal message. Our walk of life in Christ is not a matter of going to local physical churches.

Do you live by the Bible(the Word of God, which is spiritual and notional) or by physical congregation that might not have the Bible(because it is not physical, but spiritual and notional)?

The letters in the Bible are for your encouragement, edification and correction(eg: Rev1vv1-4).

Can you be encouraged, or edified by letters? E-mails are letters. Snail-mails are letters.

Do you ever write home? Are you not a family member when you are away, or when you write home, or when your family members live without you in their locality/proximity/house?

A family is not a local unit. A family is relations and inheritance and recognition and identity.

E-church is identity, though often lack recognition from those who have agenda against it.

When was the last time God communicate with you physically(verbal communication through reading excluded, for e-mailing, e-bible, and icq are such communication)?

When was the last time you heard the voice of God physically, locally(sound waves, vibrations through the air)? Is God failing to instruct you? Is God failing to love you or care for you?

Where in the Bible does it tell you that you must be in fellowship with real physical people? Regularly? (There was Enoch, there was Elijah, Joseph in slavery; Jesus in the desert for 40 days; John in Patmos, Thomas going to India as a slave. Apollos preaching by himself(Acts18vv24-26). Paul in Damascus(for 3 years); in shipwreck. Closet Christians in countries of repression, persecution.) How often we are impressed with the attitude that there is only "the normal way" of things.

Must you be encouraged by local congregation?

Must the Word of God be physical and local?

Must Christians tithe to local church? Where does it say so in the Bible? Jews tithed to the Temple in Jerusalem even that a large portion of the population lived away from the Temple, the City of Jerusalem and the land of Benjamites.

Were the books of Job, Psalms, and Moses primarily for the local congregation of their time, or do they transcend time and space?

Have you ever felt the importance of astronauts orbiting or reaching the moon? Was this subordinate to their exercise and daily duties at NASA or any space agencies?

Are you unemployed when you stay at home or work at home?

Is you company/employer lossing you when you work away from your local company?

Must you have a local work station for all your employees?

Can you pay employees working at home or abroad?

Is there any church/fellowship on board ocean liners, space ships and in the battle fields?

Is your church/fellowship located in any battle field?

Is there any church in the forest when there is no bread or biscuit for Holy Communion?

Is there any church in remote villages worshipping with radio progams only?

My God is merciful and compassionate. Your gods are institutions, manmade tradition and dogma?

Can you worship God in your secret room? In your closet? In your underground chamber? In a tunnel? In a car? How come? They lack congregation, pastor, ritual, physical sharing and regularity. What is important is not any of these so many believers of churchianity advocate.

Jesus sent the 70 disciples out for Gospel work, for healing, for proclamation; and not for worshipping in local churches. They are instructed to stay with the house that welcomed them in.

People like Paul, Apollo, Prisca walked around for the Gospel. Many walk around for finding local churches.

The Bible never teaches that there is a period/dispensation called early Christians, and another time/period called later development. Paul was described as one of the sect of the Nazarenes(Acts24v5). We see that there have been denominations/sects since the time of Paul and the OT. Not all are following Christ in the right way, the fervent way. Not all fellowship are accessible. Paul was rejected by many churches/congregations.

Acts 26v5 speaks of sects of Pharisees.

D.Lim: Talking is human. Communicating via keyboards is human, requiring life and human thoughts and action. Typing is physical. Pressing to SEND button is physical.

Agreeing saying AMEN, and disagreeing is interaction.

Seeing video and pictures of other believers is physical and human.

There is a lack of bad breathe, a lack of CO2, a lack of perfume scent, a lack of body heat.

These are not mentioned requirement for believers to meet or preach or prophesy.

There is a lack of physical handshake.

The e-church is rather spiritual and far-reaching. Just imagine shaking hands of 10s of thousands of people.

You are uptight about it when you are mean. You do not demand handshakes when you are dealing with the mass, thousands and millions of people. Some Christians never grow out of their little physical churches.

D.Lim: The Agape, the love feast, is actually a meal taken in love and sharing. You hardly need any minister to eat any meal in love and unity in spirit. You hardly need a local physical congregation to taste food and remember what Christ has done for all.

Holy Communion as celebrated by established physical churches is not recorded in the Bible.

Christ and the disciples did not eat their last supper in church. It is a ceremony with new meaning. In Acts, it is expounded into meals called Agape, and no more just the passover meal/ceremony.

We need to follow the spirit of the law and not the physical cloak of ceremony.

This is always a point of contention. For amongst us are weak brethren who must follow physical things and ceremony. We just have to understand them and put up with them. For God saves us all, those who are strong enough spiritually to eat meat, and those who must eat vegetable only. It is not a matter of reaching one united Biblical truth. We will always have difference in denominational doctrines for believers of different requirement. May God help us all to strive towards Him, His likeness.

D.Lim: Believers may obtain water baptism with ministers they may meet locally.

E-church ministers may travel overseas to administer water baptism if a need is voiced.

Many of the congregation are believers already, through many reasons are not going to churches of mortar and bricks.

Many attendants are persecuted by people in church buildings to the extend that they do not go to physical churches. Water baptism is not the issue.

D.Lim: The New Testament has no reference to Christians/believers meeting in church buildings. There is no sanctuary. There is no church(as of building and institutional building).

Synagogues are for Jews and Jewish meetings and are no church or sanctuary for Christians.

Christians are barred from entering the Jewish Temple. They are believed to be worshipping in the corridors at the edge of the Temple. This is hardly any church building. Certainly not the church buildings many seek to have today. No sanctuary. No office. No gymn. No kitchen.

To say that early Christians and the first churches meet at home is an unerstatement.

The Bible only tells us believers meet at home. There is no teaching of any differentiation between early Christians and later Christians. No Dispensationism. The Revelation completes our history and the Bible, and still, no church building in the Revelation.

The Anti-Christ is said to be calling/crowning himself GOD in the Temple. This is no church building. This is referred to the 3^rd Jewish Temple.

Christian churches are not normally called: Temple.

If Christians are to meet in homes and houses, certainly we meet by the side of the computer terminals.

The ability to see face to face is not required by God or the Bible.

You simply do not see your brothers if you are blind. Yet blind people meet everywhere.

No requirement for them to see first before correctly worshipping God, in any correct setting.

The sense of brotherhood is there in the link, in the conversation, in the donation, in prayers(that passes all barriers).

The real importance is whether we have God in our midst. He is the vine and we are the branches. We are linked together by God who passes all things and barriers. The Holy Spirit works in all of our hearts.

D.Lim: True that the early churches worship in houses and therefore local community. And certainly early churches send their love offerings and greetings via travellers/apostles. We now send our love, offerings, and greetings via the electronic messengers travelling in the air and in conduits. The early churches did not have electricity readily available. We have the same Spirit, same brotherhood, same body of Christ, same love, same sovereign God as our focus, our centre of worship, our object of love, our guidance, our goal.

You cannot expect an early development to have everything a matured development would have. Through time, local believers who share the same internet church may get together to worship. This is already demonstrated by the established internet churches on the web. Some have physical church buildings and regular service. (eg: St. Luke Evangelical Ministries of the First international Church of the Web, and the Holy Christian Life Church).

Just because the early e-church does not have local congregation in some areas/countries is no excuse or reason for physical traditional churches of other denomination to lord them/it over.

Different denominations have different undertanding, rules and practices. They have needs to be left alone to serve God in their own imperfect ways. Being imperfect is not being unChristian.

The Great Commission does not commission us to form local community first. We are commanded to go and reach the utmost of the World. We are only to lead and teach the believers. We are not commanded to raise up local community first regardless of availability of believers.

Interesting to see that those established churches(usually churches with and need church buildings) would not come to worship with internet churches(e-church ministers and house churches) they so criticise of lacking local congregation. Their hidden agenda is one of destroying other for their own monopoly and glory.

Interesting to see that the critics are not house churches, failing the model set forth in Scriptures.

D.Lim: Great sense in belonging to the international worldwide community called: The Body of Christ.

D.Lim: Church buildings and properties are not Biblical requirement for any ministry. In fact some internet churches have secular registration, building/s, and regular physical and traditional services(eg: St. Luke in Georgia).

Brothers and sisters, let us love God and love others according to the Word of God.

Let us go forward to reach the whole World for Christ our dear Lord and redeemer.

Let us come to Christ for our heavy loads and labor.

Christ is the Lord of Rest.

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They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

D.Lim: the Great Commission/Commandment does not include church building/sanctuaries/palaces/halls and local church groups first. It is an outward outgoing movement. It is a matter of heeding and going, trusting in the providence of God.

It is about preaching/reporting the gospel to all(Local church institution as starting point and sustaining device, is too limited, and not the aim of the Commission.)

How often people grow complacent in their local setting/churches?

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E-churches are processional ministries on the internet. The glory of God is spread forth on the web via fellowship of believers. The Truth keeps marching on.

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By: Robert S. Brozoski

(Originally Written in 1999)

May the words of our mouths and the meditations of our hearts be acceptable in Your sight, our Lord and our Redeemer. - Amen.

"I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church..." Colossians 1:24

What is a "church"? Some would say that it is the building that they go to every Sunday morning and Wednesday night. To be honest with you, that is what I used to believe. And in most parts, that is true. According to the Webster's Universal College Dictionary a "church" is defined this way: (n) the whole body of Christian believers. Let me say it again, "THE WHOLE BODY OF CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS."

You see brothers and sisters, the church is not the building, the church is the people. That's you and me. We are the Church. In Colossians 1:24 it says that His (Christ's) body is the church. Are we not the body of Christ? Now is that saying that each denomination is a separate church? I don't think so. Remember the definition "the WHOLE body of Christian believers." Each one of us belongs to a local church body, which is essential for the whole church to function. The church is the body. Without an arm, would the human body be complete?

When I was 13 years old, I went in front of the adult leaders of my Scout troop to earn the rank of Second Class. I earned it. The next rank, First Class, was the goal of many boys. In order to receive First Class, one had to hold an office of leadership. I was a shy boy, so I did not want to run for office. Instead, My Scoutmaster appointed me the "Chaplain's Aide". I took this position with great responsibility. I was to, what others called it, "imitate" church while on campouts. This is when I learned that the church is not the building, it's the people. I have had some of my best church services in the woods with a group of boys and adult leaders. Why is this? Because we were a body of Christian believers. We were there and most importantly, God was there! Although I am not the "Chaplain's Aide" any longer, I still have church in the wilderness, or anywhere else for that matter. We are the Church, and they will know we are Christians by our love.

In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit -- Amen.

Father God - thank You for allowing us to be the body of Christ. Lord, prepare us to be Your church. Teach us Father to function as the body. Allow each member to be whole. Thank You Jesus, for guiding us. In His name - Amen!

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To some the church is a building, to others a denomination, to others a service. (i.e. let's go or we'll be late for church.

THE Church is made up of all believers.

A Church is a group of believers who gather to the Lord in one location on a regular basis. (They may or may not be organized as an organizations.)

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You see brothers and sisters, the church is not the building, the church is the people. That's you and me.

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Posted by Rev. Dr. Dave Topping on March 25, 2005, 5:45 am, in reply to "A REAL CHURCH"

A CHURCH is a meeting of people. I regularly hold meetings of people from all over the world using IRC or MSNM, Skype or JavaChat.

Whilst that meeting is in place, there's a CHURCH.

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Posted by Rev. Vic on March 25, 2005, 1:10 am, in reply to "A REAL CHURCH"

Blessings Brother Richard. I can't say that I'm anyone special as to represent a building of brick, or a place, or even a face before a crowd, but my door is always open and I'm almost always here.

There are Brick or wood or tin Churches ALL around here and I know most of them. I could start a house for our LORD if that was His Spirit on me, but it is not, at least not at this time. What ministering I do feel led in, is support for the ones that already exists. Be it assitance to the Pastors, the members, a Church flower bed, a sign, charity, food, clothing or just a need for a smile or a hug. I, myself, am not concerned with having a place to lead from, I'm more concerned with making sure that I follow the lead of Christ.

I do have a sign in our yard, The Ten Commandments praise GOD, but even greater than that is for those who know me, know that I love Jesus come night and day. If anything, I prefer they know me first as their neighbor who lives among them and not to view me as one being in front or above them.

I hope this doesn't sound too simple, but it peace and right with the Spirit of Christ in me.

Blessings in all that you do if you are happen to be Pastoring a Brick Church. I stand with you too for glorifying of GOD in the name of our LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ. Amen. GOD bless you much Brother. Sister Victoria

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Posted by Dr. Hoyt Noel on March 24, 2005, 11:41 pm, in reply to "A REAL CHURCH"

As defined in my research and studies, a church is a living cell with the DNA of Jesus at its nucleus and the RNA is us. It might be simplified like this: DNA stands for Divine Nature of the Almighty and RNA stands for Relationships Nurtured through Agape {love}. The orginal first century church was a cell church. As long as Christ is in the midst of those worshipping, you have a church. Does not matter whether it is on the internet, in someone's home, on the street corner, or in a "brick and mortar" church building. We are the Body of Christ. Wherever we go and expound the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it IS a Church. Church is not what surrounds you, it is what lives inside you, empowers you, drives you to bring the good news to the lost souls who need to hear that Jesus is LORD of all and that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Church is not a place you go to, it is something you bring with you wherever you go. By the way I myself preached at a "brick and mortar church" AFTER I was ordained here for two years and still preach part time at one to this day, and will pastor another church soon.

In the love of Jesus,

Rev. Dr. Hoyt Noel Jr., BAMin, ThM, DD

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Posted by Brother Dave on March 24, 2005, 10:54 pm, in reply to "A REAL CHURCH"

It's difficult for independent ministers to find employment as pastors of established churches. Most who do pastor "brick and mortar" churches do so at churches they themselves start. I, personally, feel this is admirable. After all, a pastor who's hired at an established church has had the hardest work done for him already. But an independent minister who establishes a church has many, many duties far beyond the scope of pastors of established churches.

I know from the e-mail, written correspondence, and phone calls I receive that we do have many ministers who pastor "brick and mortar" churches. A friend of mine, who was originally ordained by St. Luke's, has served as pastor of a sizable Baptist church here in Augusta for the last couple of years. But most start the churches themselves, either alone or with a group of friends, or even as a husband and wife. We have many more ministers who serve part-time in various established churches as either visiting or on-call preachers in all sorts of denominations. One of our ministers here in Georgia is a traveling Lutheran preacher, with a regular route of small Lutheran churches throughout the North Georgia area, and he travels to a different one each week to lead services.

I hope this addresses your question, and whatever concerns were behind it. I'll spare you my lecture on "a web church IS a real church", but there are plenty here who are familiar with it and share my view. Our own church was first a web church, and only this past year, through the support, generosity, and faithfulness of our members, have been blessed to establish a "brick and mortar" church. But I am still convinced that a web church is a real church - indeed, our own members have proved it again and again.

Ooops, I said I'd spare you my lecture. Consider this my abreviated version.

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Posted by Rev. Brad Norman on March 24, 2005, 9:48 pm, in reply to "A REAL CHURCH"

I read scripture and preach at various churches around town... I'm not the leader of a brick and mortar church as of yet, but I also have evangelism meetings at schools to educate teens about Christianity, and organizing Christian music shows and events to show people that Christianity isn't as boring as TV shows make it seem. And an online church is a REAL church. it can REALly change people's lives and can REALly help people with their struggles.

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Posted by Christopher Rose on March 24, 2005, 9:52 pm, in reply to "Re: A REAL CHURCH"

. . . Sometimes I think God asks us to minister behind the scene, we just need to know when he asks that of us.

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"No man stood with me, but all men forsook me," wrote Paul the prisoner. [But, Paul also wrote] "Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me." (2 Timothy 4:16,17)

D.Lim: There are those who advocate local fellowship as real church. Those who already have local congregation running often like to lord over loners and Christians ministering to the world with no fellowship support. Did Paul have a church or go to attend church at that time? Did Paul submit to those groups confronting him in order to have a local fellowship and physically break bread with some believers?

No. Principles first. God first. Christ promised He will never forsake His followers.

God is still with us when the whole world, even the whole world turned against us. Assured. At peace. Living testimonies. Divine supported. Victorious. Heaven-bound. Upward-called. Eternally secured. Joyful.

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