Did Jesus Christ produce error in His speech and memory/facts ?
In article <3690e6ee.166567250@nntp.idir.net>, jshlackman@adelphia.net wrote:
James Michael McGill wrote:
MCGILL
In _Beyond Fundamendalism_ by James Barr, Barr cites two such cases which would be sufficient to completely undermine the fundamentalist claim for both the infallibility of the scriptures as well as the infallibility of Jesus himself. Both cases involve Jesus making errors when referring to what are now considered OT scriptures. The first is found in Mark 2:25-26 when Jesus relates a story from 1 Sam. 21:1-6. The story involves the high priest Ahimelech. But Jesus incorrectly calls the high priest Abiathar (who happens to have been Ahimelech's son). The second case can be found in Matt. 23:35 where Jesus is talking about the death of Zacharias as related in 2 Chron. 24:20-21. The only problem with Jesus' recounting of this story is that he mistakenly refers to Zacharias as the son the Barachias when he is really the son of Jehoida. Personally, I find these two easily verified biblical errors especially powerful arguments against not only literalism but also the infallibility of both the scriptures and Jesus himself.Michael
Jed:
There is an error of some sort in the instances you mention, yet you haven't proved the source of the error. Possibilities include 1. Jesus made an error when he spoke. 2. The gospel authors made mistakes in recording their testimony. 3. The text was translated incorrectly at some point. 4. Due to a misunderstanding of context or facts, an apparently false statement is really accurate.McGill:
So it is not enough to point out errors in the Bible, one must prove the source also? Even if 1,2, or 3 above is true it is STILL ERRORS. So therefore:1. I believe is possible or probable.
2. I believe is possible or probable, but according to the Bible weren't the gospel authors directed by God?
3.I believe is possible or probable, but do we know that happened in this case? We can speculate and rationalize what might have or could have happened, but that doesn't change what the Bible says. It could be number 1 or 2 just as well as number 3, either way it is still errors.
4.I believe is unlikely. But I am open to you or anyone else to show me how this "apperenly false statement is really accurate."
Michael
D: A lack of search/study and patience in the part of the enquirer/unbeliever. Coming to conclusion before concluding an exhaustive research/finding.
D: Wow! Jesus made two mistakes in historical record and no one in His time spotted that. The recorders of the gospels were so bad in history that they did not spot the error and just recorded them down as truth/facts. Furthermore, the scribes/copiers were all so stupid and forgetful of facts that they faithfully reproduced/copied these mistakes of Jesus for disbelief/laughters and confusion of prosperity.
So many mistakes, or so many reinforcing facts?And only if you are a die-hard non-believer could you spot such error! What intelligence! Research so profound and accurate that surpassed the contemporaries of Jesus, the non-believers, His enemies and accusers.
Does that mean that non-believers today are more sophisticated than non-believers throughout history? Or like their predecessors, they are quick to make mistakes?Easily verified biblical errors?
Exhausted all answer and possibilities? Certainly not shown to be so.In the same book of 1 Samuel we have evidence of the father and sons serving as priests for Levitical duties within the same generation, and at the same time. Is this record within the same book not sufficient to show that the naming of a son in office at the same time of the father could be historically accurate?
1 Sam 1v9 tells us that Eli was a priest.
In 1 Sam 2 vv12-17 show that the sons, Hophni and Phinehas (sons of Eli in v12, young men in v17) were despising offering of the Lord. Even Samuel was ministering before the Lord (1Sam 2v18) at the same time. So, many can serve the Lord at the same time, within one generation. In v24-5 Eli talked to his sons.
In 1 Sam 2v29-35 the Lord talked to Eli concerning his sons. In 1 Sam 3 Eli was still the priest in priestly office. So, in the same book God has given simple and straight record/information that the sons can serve as ministers while their father is still serving as a priest. And God can raise another priest while these priests are still alive and serving in their office. How does the easily verified biblical error reconcile with the easily verified fact preceding the error, that any diligent bible reader/student would read the first chapter, and then the second, and then the third and so on before they come to chapter 21 of the same book. This chapter does not even mention that only one priest was (strangely enough) in office serving all the needs of Israel.
Can we call casual picking of a few verses diligence? Infallible evidence against the whole?
Should a student questioning matters of Jewish Priesthood search from the beginning of the Torah and find out how the Aaronic and Levitical Priesthood were consecrated?
Starting from the very beginning, all Levites found clean/blameless under the Law of Moses are consecrated as priests. Their inheritance is their office. So, like father like son, the sons are priests serving with their fathers.
Picking out 2 Chron. 24:20-21 is as easy as turning to Zech 1:1. Why one and not the other? Why one Zechariah and not the other? A lack of tools? A lack of insight? A lack of understanding? A lack of clean heart? Who is playing god here?
Matt5v3- Blessed are the poor in spirit...
...
Just War and Love of Christ || Infant Baptism || Marrying non-believers ||
A Failed Prophesy on Tyre? || Another Failed Prophesy on Tyre? ||
Why 4 Gospels? || Answering Errancy Allegation ||
Hebrew Matthew and document Q || Census in Luke Ch 2 ( Anachronism? ) ||
A Christian Witness ||
Similarity warrants Recognition and Unity? || Freewill and pre-destination ||
Dynamic Equivalence and Propitiation ||
Photography || Photo Gallery || Portrait Gallery || Architecture ||
Design Consultancy || Preacher || Herbalist || Cool Sites ||