Posted by Rev, Misha Zigas on July 12, 2003, 5:13 am - FICOTW

Posted by Pete Kendall on July 12, 2003, 11:21 am, in reply to "the Sabbath" - FICOTW

I have found that newbies (baby christians)can easily become confused by this argument upheld by the 7th day adventist cult, and by the jehovah witness cult.

The apostles and disciples, had this very debate, and I can't fathom, why the answer they came to is not good enough for you!

Posted by Rev. Dr. Randall Herr on July 12, 2003, 12:13 pm, in reply to "the Sabbath"

I know of a mission congregation that is without their own meeting place. So, they share a house of worship with another congregation. The mission congregation meets on Saturday and the second congregation meets on Sunday. And Jesus, true to his promise, is at both and blesses both because where two or more gather in His name, there He is also.

Pastor Chuck

Posted by Bill Frye, Th.D. on July 12, 2003, 2:25 pm, in reply to "Re: the Sabbath"

Absolutely correct, Brother Chuck. Every mention of the church in the New Testament states that they came together for worship on the first day of the week ( the Lord's Day - Sunday ) in order to commemorate His resurrection. Of course, we are under no command to do so, and as you stated, we may choose to worship on Saturday, for whatever reason. ( Not because of the Law, but of personal choice )

Blessings to all,

Bill Frye, Th.D.

Pastor, North Nassau Community Church

-=-

Posted by Fr. Richard Cowles+ on July 13, 2003, 10:22 pm, in reply to "the Sabbath"

Hey, I don't personally care if you're going to church at 2 in the morning on Thursday. I'm just glad that you're going.

Pastor Chuck is correct about the history of the matter though. The whole Sunday thing came into being long before any Bishop of Rome.

God bless you.

Richard Cowles+, CCRS

Christ Catholic Church Intl.

South Bend, IN

-=-

Re: About the Sabbath

Posted by Min Brian on July 19, 2003, 2:09 pm, in reply to "About the Sabbath"

¡K many very important scriptures that would seem to change the intent of your argument such as Matt 12:11-12 and Mark 2:23-28 and Mark 3:2-5 and Luke 13:10-17 and Luke 14:1-6 and John 5:9-19 and John 7:22-24 and I could go on but those examples are ones related directly to Jesus' direct teachings and activities. One final one that I would include for edification of those who are confused on this issue is Col 2:14-17 and 2Cor 3:6-17. Remember this, the word 'Sabbath' should be best transliterated as "a day of resting from regular tasks to do something different at least once every seven days".

Posted by leonard sanders on July 19, 2003, 11:24 pm, in reply to "Re: About the Sabbath"

Brother you can't get to heaven by works,in John:8 you can reed about a girl who was coughtin adultery.The scribes and the pharisees took her to jesus and siad to him to accuse him.they kept pressing hem but' he stooped down and wrighting in the ground. Then he siad he that is without sin cast the first stone. Her accusers left and Jesus ask her where are your accusers;has no man condemn thee;she siad no man 'Lord, and he neither do I,go and sin no moore. You asking what has this to do with the sabbath.Did notJesus know the commandments?read John:1 . Why did not Jesus say stone this woman? Rad John:19, Jesus went to the cross fore you and me my friend. Jesus piad the price fore braking the law and poored out his grace upon us.when Jesus siad ,Icome not to destory the the law.I came to fulfill it, this is what He ment. The sabbath is rest with Father. The Son, The Holly Ghost.

Your Brother in Christ

FICOTW Bulletin Board

Re: About the Sabbath

Posted by Min Brian on July 19, 2003, 10:34 pm, in reply to "Re: About the Sabbath"

Yes I do disagree with you, but only because I agree with what Jesus himself practiced:

Mark 2:23 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain.

Mark 2:24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath??

Mark 2:25 He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need?

Mark 2:26 In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.?

Mark 2:27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Mark 2:28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.?

Mark 3:1 Another time he went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there.

Mark 3:2 Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath.

Mark 3:3 Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Stand up in front of everyone.?

Mark 3:4 Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill??But they remained silent.

Mark 3:5 He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.?He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored.

Luke 14:1 One Sabbath, when Jesus went to eat in the house of a prominent Pharisee, he was being carefully watched.

Luke 14:2 There in front of him was a man suffering from dropsy.

Luke 14:3 Jesus asked the Pharisees and experts in the law, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath or not??

Luke 14:4 But they remained silent. So taking hold of the man, he healed him and sent him away.

Luke 14:5 Then he asked them, “If one of you has a son or an ox that falls into a well on the Sabbath day, will you not immediately pull him out??

John 5:9 At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked. The day on which this took place was a Sabbath,

John 5:10 and so the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat.?

John 5:11 But he replied, “The man who made me well said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.??

John 5:12 So they asked him, “Who is this fellow who told you to pick it up and walk??

John 5:13 The man who was healed had no idea who it was, for Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there.

John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.?

John 5:15 The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well.

John 5:16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him.

John 5:17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.?

John 5:18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 7:22 Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a child on the Sabbath.

John 7:23 Now if a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing the whole man on the Sabbath?

John 7:24 Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment.?

These are all the words and actions of Jesus Himself concerning the Sabbath. The following are not His words, but they are God-ordained as they are still in the Bible:

Col. 2:14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

Col. 2:15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Col. 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Col. 2:17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

2Cor. 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant —not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2Cor. 3:7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was,

2Cor. 3:8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?

2Cor. 3:9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!

2Cor. 3:10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory.

2Cor. 3:11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

2Cor. 3:12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold.

2Cor. 3:13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away.

2Cor. 3:14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.

2Cor. 3:15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.

2Cor. 3:16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

2Cor. 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

It seems like every time we have someone who posts here concerning the Sabbath, they seem to want to create some sort of doctrine out of it so that a seed of discord and contention can be sown. I concur with Br Ford's parable about the dinner, but I would take it one step further. If I'm a vegetarian and I get invited over to someone's house for dinner and, along with the salad that they serve me, they serve up a hamburger for themselves, it is inappropriate for me to call them a murderer (this situation actually happened to someone I know). Anyone is more than welcome to post here and not all agree with all points of view. It is a privelege to post here, not a right. We are here in Br Ford's house to reason together and there are many voices here that will either agree or not according to their freedom of expression. Don't mock that by accusing others of being unwilling to accept your point-of-view when you are unwilling to accept theirs as well. It is not a sin to disagree but it is ignorant to be disagreeable in a public forum. We are not labeling you at all. True we are judging you, but we are judging you equally with the way you are judging us according to 1Cor 6:1-5. If you judge us according to our different view of the Sabbath, are we not justified in defending ourselves and judging your view according to the selfsame standard of the Word that you have applied? You are more than welcome here dear brother as long as accept that not everyone here has the same views that you hold. You seem quite well-read and informed but please temper that with the understanding that a truth that you may hold dear may be something that another may not be quite ready for and vice versa. Getting into a contest of wills with the majority never is a wise decision. Having a pity party over it never solved anything. I personally have views that differ from many here due to my background and even once was corrected by the leadership here for the way I represented one of them. My post in question was not deleted and I shared my thoughts to clarify and some agreed and others did not. So what?! I encourage you to take to heart these words:

Rom. 14:3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.

Rom. 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Rom. 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Rom. 14:6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.

The entire chapter of Rom 14 is relevant, but for space's sake I only copied the verses that dealt with the situation at hand.

Ex 20vv8-11: Establishing the 10 Commandments

20:8 ·í°O©À¦w®§¤é, ¦u¬°¸t¤é.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

20:9 ¤»¤é­n³Ò¸L§@§A¤@¤Áªº¤u.

Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

20:10 ¦ý²Ä¤C¤é¬O¦V­C©MµØ§Aªº¯«·í¦uªº¦w®§¤é. (.³o¤@¤é.) §A©M§Aªº¨à¤k,¹²±A, ¬¹¯b, ¨Ã§A«°¸Ì±H©~ªº«È®È, µL½×¦ó¤u³£¤£¥i§@.

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

20:11 ¦]¬°¤»¤é¤§¤º, ­C©MµØ³y¤Ñ, ¦a, ®ü, ©M¨ä¤¤ªº¸Uª«, ²Ä¤C¤é«K¦w®§. ©Ò¥H­C©MµØ½çºÖ»P¦w®§¤é, ©w¬°¸t¤é.

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Lev 26v2:

26:2 §A­Ì­n¦u§Úªº¦w®§¤é, ·q§Úªº¸t©Ò. §Ú¬O­C©MµØ.

Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

Deut 5vv12-14: Repeating Ex 20vv8-11

5:12 ·í·Ó­C©MµØ§A¯«©Ò§h©Jªº¦u¦w®§¤é¬°¸t¤é.

Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

5:13 ¤»¤é­n³Ò¸L§@§A¤@¤Áªº¤u,

Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

5:14 ¦ý²Ä¤C¤é¬O¦V­C©MµØ§A¯«·í¦uªº¦w®§¤é. (.³o¤@¤é.), §A©M§Aªº¨à¤k, ¹²±A, ¤û, Æj, ¬¹¯b, ¨Ã¦b§A«°¸Ì±H©~ªº«È®È, µL½×¦ó¤u³£¤£¥i§@, ¨Ï§Aªº¹²±A¥i¥H©M§A¤@¼Ë¦w®§.

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

John 19v31:

19:31 µS¤Ó¤H¦]³o¤é¬O¹w³Æ¤é, ¤S¦]¨º¦w®§¤é¬O­Ó¤j¤é, ´N¨D©¼©Ô¦h¥s¤H¥´Â_¥L­Ìªº»L, §â¥L­Ì®³¥h, §K±o«Í­º·í¦w®§¤é¯d¦b¤Q¦r¬[¤W.

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. -KJV

Acts 13:27 ­C¸ô¼»§N©~¦íªº¤H, ©M¥L­Ìªº©xªø, ¦]¬°¤£»{ÃÑ°ò·þ, ¤]¤£©ú¥Õ¨C¤é¦w®§¤é©ÒŪ²³¥ýª¾ªº®Ñ, ´N§â°ò·þ©w¤F¦º¸o, ¥¿À³¤F¥ýª¾ªº¹w¨¥.

For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

Hebrews 4 vv9-11:

4:9 ³o¼Ë¬Ý¨Ó, ¥²¥t¦³¤@¦w®§¤éªº¦w®§, ¬°¯«ªº¤l¥Á¦s¯d.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

4:10 ¦]¬°¨º¶i¤J¦w®§ªº, ¤D¬O·²¤F¦Û¤vªº¤u, ¥¿¦p¯«·²¤F¥Lªº¤u¤@¼Ë.

For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

¡@

Matt 12:12 ¤H¤ñ¦Ï¦óµ¥¶Q­«©O. ©Ò¥H¦b¦w®§¤é§@µ½¨Æ¬O¥i¥Hªº.

How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. -KJV