Reasoning with Lawyerkill on Tyre - David Lim
Continue from part 1
>DLim Web site:
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>There is no suggestion that the city of Tyre was an island city in the last 11 verses. Every clue indicated that it was on the mainland. Tyre would have existed in the days of Ezekiel, since it was mentioned even in the days of King Solomon. Ezekiel's knowledge of Tyre indicated that it was on the mainland.
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>LAWYERKILL WRITES:>Read Ezekiel 27 and Type could have only been an island.
>4
>Thy borders are in the midst of the seas, thy builders have perfected thy beauty.
>DLim:
Borders of what?How many seas are there? Not just one sea surrounding a small island? One sea border?
You mean a south sea, a east sea, and west sea and so on?
Italy and Greece are also in the midst of the seas. The seas have different names; and they are continents.
This verse is easily understood as representing trade borders of sea-going merchants.
>32
>And in their wailing they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and lament over thee, saying, What city is like Tyrus, like the destroyed in the midst of the sea?
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>And remember ezekiel would hear this, showing type was not on the coast landDLim:
The trading is in the midst of the sea.When there are other possibilities, your proposition of one situation only is not beyond all reasonable doubt.
You only presented one story/picture. That could be viewed as biased. It would help your credibility to allow students to study other views, such as mine, first and let them come to their own conclusion.
Why not seas in this verse? And the next verse has seas again?
The loss of sea merchants also cause silence in the sea immediate and the seas they used to reach.
>Dlim Web site:
>War with horses is not war at sea. There is no indication of any device to cross the sea for attacking island city. It is ridiculous to suggest that ships were not in existence at that time.
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>LAWYERKILL WRITES
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>But Ezekiel could have meant that ships would have been used to transport the horses to the island, even you admit it would be ridiculous to suggest ezekiel didn't believe there were ships.
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DLim:
Find records for such transportation first.Find ships first.
Present reason for this tactic first.Foot soldiers for navy? Not an intelligent move to me.
For a walled island in the midst of the sea?
Any record Alexander tried that?
>DLIM Web Site:
>Skeptics claim that Nebuchadnezzar was attacking the island Tyre. That Tyre was only an island city on a rock. That the rock is now inhabited by the town of Sur. That it is built up after Nebuchadnezzar.
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>LAWYERKILL WRITES:
>(from Grolier's encyclopedia)
Founded on an island, perhaps as a colony of Sidon, Tyre possessed one of the best harbors on the coast.
Tyre entered history as a vassal of the 18th dynasty of Egypt (1570-1320 BC). Following the disruption of Egypt and other Near Eastern powers in the age of the Sea Peoples, the city not only had attained an independent position but seems to have dominated Sidon. During the 10th century BC, Tyre supplied cedars, carpenters, masons, and bronzesmiths for King David (r. c.1000-c.960 BC) and King Solomon (r. c.960-c.921 BC), and Tyrian sailors were available for Solomon's Red Sea fleet.
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>And El Sur was the name of Tyre before Neb, Dlim you know Type is the english name right?
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DLim:
Tsor (in Hebrew meaning a hard pebble or flint, not an island which is i in Hebrew, also means coastland) or Sur (in Arabic) or Tyros (not an island which is nesos in Greek). It does not mean island, and island alone.The land near the coast was not mistaken as an island when it gained its Greek name.
The rock of Gibalta is a rock alright but not an island.
Petra (foundation stone)in Jordan is a complex of sand stone cut out below ground level in a Desert.
Petros is rock in Greek.That is no evidence of yours.
>Colliers Encycopedia (1993 page 565) says in 450 BCE "the island location gave the city its semitil name "Es Sur"
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>Tyre was the island(Arrian, Matthew Henry, Colliers Encyclopedia(1993 page 565), Encyclopedia Britannica (1993 Page 225), Encyclopedia American (Vol 27 1984 page 331 Ezek 27)D Lim:
What can scholars say, with so much encyclopedic evidence?
Why aren't there just encyclopedia for scholarship?>DLIM WEB SITE
>The destroyed city was never rebuilt. The walls are not seen today. The mainland walled cities are not found today.>LAWYERKILL WRITES
>"Tyre, though no more than eighteen years had elapsed since its desolation by Alexander, had, Like the fabled phoenix, risen again from its ruins, and through the recuperative energy of Commerce had attained almost to its previous wealth and prosperity."
[George Rawlinson, _History of Phoenicia_, (London: Longmans, Green, and CO., pg. 531]
>Also read "The History of Tyre": By FlemingD Lim:
Well done. So much trust in one writing by some human? The fact is thus revealed?>DLIM WEB SITE:
>The walled city of Tyre was turned into a bare rock, so that there was no building of the original city left for rebuilding, and no citizen of Tyre to rebuild it.>LAWYERKILL WRITES
D Lim:
Perhaps, when to urists get to Tyre, they find people living in houses dated back to Neb.'s time. Buildings dated back to Alexander's time are also found. Such important fact is not mentioned by Lawyerkill, Dar. and Mr Till.Please present them.
Please also present evidence that the wall surrounding the city was rebuilt after the invasion.
>BULL even the NT talks of tyre existing, Gee
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>DLIM WEB SITE
>Verse 14 indicated that Tyre will be built no more ( ie: no rebuilding of the walled city), rather than no building will be found on the rock (ie: the bare rock will not be built any more.)>LAWYERKILL WRITES
>It says that Tyre would never be rebuilt, nothing like what you are caliming, it was, that's a fact.
D Lim:
Ok. All the time I have been waiting for somebody to present us a rebuilt Tyre on the mainland, when not even its location is known.Rebuilt into what? Like the fabled phoenix, risen again from its ruins, and through the recuperative energy of Commerce had attained almost to its previous wealth and prosperity?
Then there was Dar presenting me a fishing village on the island. So island Tyre turned from a walled city to a fishing village. Dar(friend of Adnan) and Lawyerkill did not emphasis Cedar trade or dye trade. Dar was not impressed by its carpentry, lumber industry or its dye.>DLIM WEB SITE
>Who built Tyre after its stones and timbers were casted into the sea, and the walled city turned into a bare rock?>LAWYERKILL WRITES:
>WRONG AGIAN, Arrian, Diodorus and Curtius
D Lim:
Ok.
Your gods have spoken.
Who can ...?>DLIM WEB SITE
>Tyre fell under the seige of Nebuchadnezzar.>LAWYERKILL WRITES
>And your prove of that? Every christian scholar I know disagrees that Tyre fall to Nebuchadnezzar. even Ezekiel says you are wrong
D Lim:
I consulted the Word through Ezekiel before coming to my understanding.
Sorry if I offended Ezekiel.My name in the bible? or in the book of life?
>DLIM WEB SITE
>The later part of this verse indicated that the city of Tyre will be immersed in great waters [ the sea ].>LAWYERKILL WRITES
>And we know it wasn't, that's a fact.
D Lim:
With your presentation, I just do not know that.
From the photocopy from Dar I saw a great settlement.
No evidence to date the city structure back to Neb.'s time.Could you see structures of ancient Tyre under the sea around this island? Walid said you can.
>DLIM WEB SITE
>When Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander the Great threw the building material (eg: original city wall and houses) into the sea, in an effort to build a causeway to reach the island, the structures of Tyre were immersed in the sea. Nobody live in the causeway ( original structures of mainland Tyre ). The mainland city is therefore uninhabitable.>LAWYERKILL WRITES:
>Why would they want to get to the island if there was nothing there, DUH. The island was the walled city.
D Lim: I can only guess.
>DLIM WEB SITE
>Ezekiel compared the destruction of Tyre with the dead going down to the pit (another term for Hell). Tyre must have sunk under the sea as it did not sink into the soil.>LAWYERKILL WRITES
>And we know it wasn't, that's a fact.
D Lim:
Amazing what this D Lim can write.
Without elevating himself to the gods, Lim cannot speak effectively against the gods of Lawyerkill.>DLIM WEB SITE
>The fishing village/town on the peninsula today is known as Sur, but not the City of Tyre. The island ceased to exist, as it has become a man made peninsula.>In the 10th century BC Hiram, King of Tyre, joined two islets by landfill. Later he extended the city further by reclaiming a considerable area from the sea. Now did what Hiram did make Tyre go away?
>Sorry Bud, Tyre was always called Sur, damn do you know that Tyre is the english word?
D Lim:
First there was the walled city of Tyre/Sur. Then in the 20th century (according to Dar) there was the fishing town of Sur/Tyre.
Some books mentioned a village.
And Lawyerkill thinks they are equivalent settlement in glory, strength and trade power.From the photocopy I could not see a wall surrounding this settlement that has extended onto the coastland.
>DLIM WEB SITE
>Mainland Tyre is not located as an Archaeological site.
>LAWYERKILL WRITES
>The Island is, by the UN, and also the Unesco declared Tyre a world Heritage site, pretty good for something that does not exist.D Lim:
Years ago a strange structure in Africa was mistaken as Sheba.
Recently, in the cartoon - Prince of Egypt - Pharaoh was mistaken to be Rameses.Belief - pistis in Greek requires Faith. Not convincing facts all the way everywhere. Faith of Lawyerkill in his gods, allows him to conclude on a topic with the support of much literature.
As a leader in the field, I inspire scholars to reach out for the truth. Move on in the world for a better, clearer picture, with courage to break new ground. And not to bury everydream and belief in old hats. - David Lim
>LAWYERKILL WRITES:
>Why should I debate Till, I happen to agree with him, DUH>>.. I think I have a few
>>things
>>that I can throw in the Tyre debate.
>DLim:
>Somebody would even thank you if they are good enough.>Did the great Mr Till miss something Lawyerkill found? Great Lawyerkill!
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