Comment on a letter of disbelief.
From: Farrell Till
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 03:15:20 GMT
Subject: Re: KJV
At 10:39 AM 3/31/99 GMT, J.AQUAFREDDA wrote:
TILL
But can't you see that you are begging the question of whether these events
actually did happen? Let's take some examples. The Bible says that Moses
parted the Red Sea and the Israelites crossed on dry land. How do you know
that this event actually happened? Because it was written in a book that
you think is the "word of God"? What kind of evidence is that? A Mormon
believes that his book is also the word of God, but I doubt if you would see
this as evidence that the outlandish events reported in this book actually
happened. The Bible says that Elisha raised the Shunammite woman's son from
the dead. What is your evidence that this is an actual historical event?
Needless to say, I could cite an endless list of claims like these for whose
actual historicity you haven't a shred of evidence except for the fact that
they are written in a book that you think is the "word of God."
Farrell Till
David Lim:
Christians are not taught by the bible (2Tim 3 vv16,17) to pick and choose what one would like to believe and follow; though many pseudo-christians would choose to believe and practice sections of the bible and maintain they have christian identity and inheritance.
The Christian Gosple is not about moving of the heart.
It is about the transforming power of God; the cross of God's provision for redemption; and walking through life with God. This is a personal experience with the Most High that completely overwhelms human academic studies (ie: history, science, logic).
Come, and taste His Goodness. Seek His forgiveness. Shine forth with His Love and Righteousness.
With Christ, christians are more than conquerors.
1 Corinthians 1 v18:
The bible, and the teaching of Paul never pretend that what is expressed in the book is wisdom to all.
Paul did teach in the letter/epistle that the word of the cross (ie: the Gospel) is the power of God to those who belong to God.
The bible does not teach universal salvation. It teaches the keeping of the elect, and a place for eternal punishment called "Hell".
Hell is for the disobedient. So, the bible teaches that not all will obey. People may die of unbelief.
Unbelief is regarded as Sin.
Christians are out to find the lost sheep. They are not out there trying to gain all science, all knowledge, all worldly things to convince everybody, to bring them to absolute conformity of Christ. Universal consensus is never called for in this age for these people.
It is God, Most High, who changes people.
The preachers preach. They preach by preaching.
Christians rely on revelation. Not scientific discoveries.
2 Corinthians 4 v3:
The gospel is not made known and clear to everybody.
The bible does not teach that all will see the light and the truth via the preaching of the gospel. It does teach blindness of the unbelief (perishing ones). It teaches that some will perish (will not be saved. There is no dawn in their night).
It is not the duty of the preachers to give sight to all those who are without salvation. It is the Holy Spirit who convicts the heart.
For all events on earth there is always two opposing sides of believers. No evidence may convince everybody (including those who are mentally ill, sold to Satan and born as anti-christs).
The bible teaches that there is a god of this age, an authority that rules in the hearts of those who do not submit themselves to the Most High God.
And this god blinds them. It does not help them to see light, to see the Truth. They only see this age, this god. They do not perceive the Gospel, the redemption, the Glory of Christ.
Till:
There will always be people who keep questioning.
No historical events are covered with an overwhelming amount of evidence. There is always room for all sorts of stories.
The Holy Spirit works in the hearts of the believers, persuading them to believe the truth by signs and wonders. Not just by science of some sort, or by words of somebody.
Because it was written in a book that
you think is the "word of God"?
Not a book. Not just any book.
But the affirmed Holy Scriptures/bible, the Word of God, confirmed by the Holy Spirit, in the hearts of the believers.
This is not an act of science, or pure human logic/reasoning.
Except it is given from above, mankind cannot comprehend the matters of God.
The Christian God and His works are not anthropomorphic. They are beyond comprehension.
A Mormon believes that his book is also the word of God, but I doubt if you would see
this as evidence that the outlandish events reported in this book actually
happened.
And Till believes it is not. Something convinced them so. This shows that there are different systems of logic/reasoning at work in the realm of human thinking. It is not just one and only one way of reasoning.
The Bible says that Elisha raised the Shunammite woman's son from
the dead. What is your evidence that this is an actual historical event?
People believe via persuasion; not just by facts, evidence and human reasoning.
One does not believe in the Gospel or Christ via such narrative. One comes to embrace these events as true via belief and trust in the Lord Jesus.
The logic of Till and skeptics are not setting at the right place or running by the right sequence.
The bible is first to be read with the sequence supplied by itself. Not with extra-biblical systems of reasoning in the first place and the last instance. (eg: one gets a verdict from a court, and a judge; not from an outsider)
The bible never claims to be science. It is not to be read with science throughout and science only.
Needless to say, I could cite an endless list of claims like these for whose
actual historicity you haven't a shred of evidence except for the fact that
they are written in a book that you think is the "word of God."
Who knows that the ancestors of Mr Till were named Till? But it is safe to make such assumption. Who needs to question that? Not common people.
The main theme of the Gospel/Good News is redemption by the cross of Christ; not all historic events.
The name of Till, skeptics, science, history.... are not anything by which people must be saved. The human hearts are still wicked beyond our comprehension.
Who can (which being a creature, a little subject from dust) understand God and His deeds fully?
Nobody!
The nobody want (via wickedness, pride, sin, disobedience) to be everybody? Some of the nobody want to arrest all christian, spiritual activities?
A far-fetched wish.
The people image a vain thing.
Where do they get such power?
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>I do believe that most everything in the bible is correct, including the OT.
>There are however, inaccuracies concerning times and dates of events as well
>as where certain things may or may not have happened. I would have to look
>further into it to list them for you but if you read the NT, you will find
>them. For me it is not what happened when that matters most, it is that it
>did happen and that these events meant so much to those of that time that
>they were inspired to write about them.
>
Skepticism, Inc.
jftill@midwest.net
For the word of the cross is to those who are perishing (or, perish) foolishness, but to us who are [being] saved it is the power of God.
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
2 Corinthians 4 v4:
in whose case the god of this age [world] has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, the image of God, should not dawn upon them.)
But can't you see that you are begging the question of whether these events
actually did happen?
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