Hatred directed towards christians and David Lim
Some rational thinkers believe that christians are actively attacking non-believers.
I am posting hate e-mails I received on the internet here as evidence of hostility towards anything christian.
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www.maiden2die4@hotmail.com
FUCKIN CHRISTANS SUCK DICKS!!!!
THEY HAVE NO GOD, OR WHATEVER YOU CALL IT! YOUR ALL FUCKIN GAY, THIS CHRISTAN SHIT IS FUCKIN SREWED UP, HOW CAN YOU CALL YOUR SLEF ANYTHING?
GOD CAN'T SAVE US, IF HE COULD THERE WOULD BE NO CANCER OR ANYOTHER CRAP IN THIS WORLD SO ALL YOU DUMB CHRISTANS GO FUCK A TREE, GOT IT?
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 13:03:00 -0400
From: Sian Reply-To: hbgroup@magi.com
Organization: HB Group
What does Jesus have to do with photography. Perhaps business would be
better attained by focussing on your talents, not that of YOUR god.
Mine's a woman!
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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 03:58:46 +1000
From: Grendel Subject: Re: Water standing up
X-Sender: jaru1@mfs06.cc.monash.edu.au
To: David Lim
MIME-version: 1.0
David,
Sigh... don't waste my time. I am not going to offer you a thumb to suck
because your ignorant belief in a "miracle" has just been washed away.
... If you want to continue
denying uncontrovertible scientific evidence all your life, it is your
right? Truth doesn't care if you turn blue denying it.
Like I said, science doesn't care about your religion nor does it have to
protect/hide anything. Deal with your hubris how you please, but I'm not
the one to reinforce it for you. ... The pathological denial encouraged by your religion
won't accept anything else...which makes sense - it's called brainwashing.
Go look up a psychology book on its effects... but you probably won't be
able to read the parts on it. The reinforcing effects of brainwashing will
automatically issue a demand for the author's credibility and concrete
evidence of psychology.... Waste of time dealing with people like you. A
search for truth is already a lost journey if one is not sincere in its
intention...
Grendel
======
JaYaN
~~~~~
Dave:
Asking details of author's credibility and concrete evidence is a popular action(intellectual approach) rational thinkers/sceptics take.
We see above that denying others the right for such evidence and fact is also action taken by sceptics.
This non-believer also come to conclusion without evidence.
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From: SimpleSimon
Cc: errancyn@makelist.com
Newsgroups: alt.bible.errancy
Subject: Re: "Love Less" Your Father, Mother, Wife, Children
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 04:01:44 GMT
Sender: alt.bible.errancy
Organization: Common Sense Inc.
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Kent in CO wrote:
> This devotion Jesus was calling for had a practical point. Soon Nero would
be in power, executing the Christians. Our devotion to God must be greater
even than to our own family members... even to the point of death. This is
a fact I'm so certain of I'm willing to die for myself.
> As always, I hope this helps. Personally, I think the intent of this
passage is so ridiculously simple, I'm surprised it's even being discussed
in this newsgroup. Particularly by someone with a mastery in English!
Simon says:
Personally, I think you've made the intent up for yourself.... and if it was
that simple, there wouldn't be any controversy... Oh, oh, did that shock
you?!? That the Bible could be confused jumble of stories massaged in such an
undivine way so as to convey not certainty but confusion through semi-sensible
structures of language that left escape routes for any criticism of its sheer
illogical nature?
It's amazing how even an undivinely inspired creature like me could convey the
same intent, that you seemed to have decided was simple, in a much clearer and
benevolent way. Why not simply say "Your devotion to God must exceed the love
of you family" or "You must love me above all else, but don't forsake the love
of your family"
It's people like you who produce your fractured drivel that drives families
apart with such nonsense!!
Hate your brothers and sisters indeed.... And religious people talk about how
atheism is decaying our moral structure! Look at you guys, preaching the
acceptable notion of hating one's family and friends to worship falsehood!
What makes you different from an extremist cult member? You think like one
already...... and you have justified this severe prejudice with the Bible!
Disgusted with religion,
Simon
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Dave:
One slave cannot serve 2 masters. We should not think of loving others at many different levels. The 1st commandment (the greatest one) is to love God, and the 2nd is to love our neighbours (those who love and care for us) as we would love ourselves.
There is much room for hatred (rejecting selectively those who are not in the realm of love.
Our intelligence is hinged on selectivity; in that we do not just accept everything channeled our way (no sane grown person can keep accepting everything and reject nothing), but arrange things in priority, and reject unfavourable corruption/hurt/poison/sabotage/destruction.
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"Why do I waste my time on people like you?"
"Why is the ability to think RATIONALLY so often missing in religious
adherents?" (Emphasis mine)
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The difference between science and the fuzzy subjects is that science requires reasoning while those other subjects merely require scholarship.
-- Robert Heinlein
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"In the long run, nothing can withstand reason and experience, and the contradiction religion offers to both is palpable."
--Sigmund Freud
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"Theology is but the ignorance of natural causes reduced to a system."
--Baron D'Holbach, _The System of Nature_
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"The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history.
The second most preposterous notion is that copulation is inherently sinful."
--Robert A. Heinlein
David Lim:
The bible/the Word of God reveal pre-destination and election. There is no one like God who can tell the end from the beginning; who set His plan of redemption and everlasting life before the world is created.
Law givers are not law teachers; yet, ignorance is no defence.
Believing and obeying God is not under the condition of knowing all that He is and does.
We have lawlessness without law.
We have lawlessness with lawbreakers.
And Sin is lawlessness. Do you inherently do everything right? Do you inherently obey all laws?
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"Hell is an outrage on humanity. When you tell me that your Deity made you in his own image, I reply that he must have been very ugly."
--Victor Hugo
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"Ministers say that they teach charity. That is natural. They live on hand-outs. All beggars teach that others should give."
--Robert G. Ingersoll
David Lim:
Who does not live on a wage/salary (may it be in any form)?
Beggars are also an established profession.
Yet, which beggar teach moral, give advice to decision makers, rule countries and societies, campaign for humanitarian courses, reminds others of the sick and the poor, join rescue efforts, plan and build schools and educational institutes, care for the lonely and downhearted, give before asked?
Which beggar or humanist round the corner of your street does that without a wage/reward?
Which sceptic is not working for a reward of some sort?
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"The biggest difference between the church and the local mall is that when you give money to the mall, you generally get something useful in return."
--Earle Jones
David Lim:
All things are from/of God; and of His own do we give Him.
What can slaves expect from the Master, by giving Him what the slaves are ordered to give and not of their own?
Love is about giving; and sin is about taking what one is not entitled to.
The concept of Reward is there in Religious Faith and Ethics. There is nothing new.
Gaining God's favour is considered something most useful since the beginning of humanity.
Gaining something money can buy is buying. No big deal.
Is that all some thinkers can think of with all they have? Missed the picture?
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"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead."
--Thomas Paine, "The Age of Reason"
David Lim:
Holding God in contempt instead? Disowning the reference point of all creation in preference of presumption, self-esteem, pride, sadness/miseries, hatred and war?
Creating life by waring against the alleged dead?
Ignoring the notion of sin, discarding this concept, in favour for an assumed glorious humanity; only to sin and bear the wages/consequence of sin?
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"Scepticism may be painful, and may be barren, but at least it is honest and an outcome of the quest for truth. Perhaps it is a temporary phase, but no real escape is possible by returning to the discarded beliefs of a stupider age."
--Bertrand Russel, _The Scientific Outlook_
David Lim:
Sceptics are not honest in my experience.
They raise queries and offer no exhaustive list of possibilities.
Seekers seek facts and truths; not stopping on difficulties and ignorance.
Their answers/manifestation is that something is wrong or illogical. Conclusion without patience in discovering the ultimate facts.
Sceptics are not earnest in my experience.
They laugh at alternative solution/explanation to events even that the ultimate facts are not at hand.
Sceptics are negative by definition.
The name does not gear to solutions; only objections, attacks on current developed positions.
Sceptics do not offer thorough research before raising objection on what they do not know, not having fully investigated the matter in question/doubt.
They do not offer the ultimate answer with all the facts although this is often what they claim to have revealed.
At this present modern age, human beings on earth are arming their countries with costly and deadly weapons under the condition of great prolonged famine; social and economic crises are unsolvable; abuse of human dignity increases; many selfishly destroying their global environment, while lining their own pockets in greed; more selfward isms created; terrorism increases for revenge and gain.
How is our age less stupid than those of the past?
Is mankind happier since the advent of Scepticism (the Age of Reasoning - as if others do not reason at all)?
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"The fact that a believer may be happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunk is happier than a sober man."
--George Bernard Shaw
David Lim:
Really? Where are the facts, statistics, reasoning, logic now?
How is this proven to be a fact in the first place?
Would an unhappy sober person become happier by getting drunk/into drinking habit?
Why do these sceptics avoid drinking in order to be unhappy then?
Should sceptics keep unbelieving in order to be miserable? Who do not want to be happy?
Is the quest for the truths, science and reasoning leading to technologies, speed in execution, development for comfort, devices to enforce miseries?
The aim was to be happier and merrier, leaving the miseries of ignorance. Now, should every thinker doubt the sincerity and aim of sceptics, if believing in God can achieve this aim (quest for comfort and happiness) more efficiently, and sceptics actively attempt to discard this method in order to be miserable, less happy, ungrateful, and set themselves in isolation (apart) from the believers (who are universally acclaimed to be happier than unbelievers?
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"When one reads Bibles, one is less surprised at what the Deity knows than at what he doesn't know."
--Mark Twain
David Lim:
Sceptics/rational thinkers who are all confined but space and time are very willing to reject revelation from a Creator who is not confined by space and time, who created the truths and integrity, whose righteousness is the ultimate reference point for the right things.
Science upholds an "Open Mind" for further revelation of facts and truths, these rational thinkers claimed to have following but do not follow. Their conclusions for an infinite domain are drawn from their finite world. Whatever do not fit their models must be wrong to them.
What justice? What righteousness?
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"The Unanswered Question is far less dangerous than the Unquestioned Answer."
--Anon
David Lim:
Sceptics can have all kinds of Unquestioned loyalty to Unquestioned Answer and Unanswered Question except one, namely: Unquestioned loyalty to God, the Creator, and a friend; and wait for the unanswered questions to be answered.
What wisdom is there is the lack of patience?
Lack of understanding?
Full of criticism?
Will to ignore and isolate?
All prepared, all out attitude to scoff, to mock, to laugh at, to laugh down and to insert.
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GRENDEL:
Yeah, you do sound like you are marketing a product. "Jesus is our friend",
"He oves you like a friend" blah blah blah. The entire product line of
Christianity has evolved from its early strict (even violent) times to its now
puppy-dog love theme marketing strategy. Does it impress me? About as much as
the pitch from a used-car salesman...
I don't know how you gather us non-Xians are "selling" anything. You have the
product. We're just discussing why we don't want to buy it. You do understand
that simple concept, don't you? Unless you are "selling" groceries everytime
you go to pick up some milk and cheese from the Quick-E-Mart. What absurd
logic!
This list (Newsgroups: alt.bible.errancy) was not established to take the bible out of the hands of Xians.
Keep your strange oddball conspiracy theories in your warped fundamentalist
head, please.... This list doesn't force anybody to convert any which way. You
don't like what you see - CHANGE THE CHANNEL! It's people like you that have
spoiled and corrupted the practice of freedom-of-expression for so long.
Santa Claus bless. And Road-runner bless. And Tonto bless.
The inimitable elf,
Grendel
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Wolfgang spammed:
God bless you with His grace and peace.
Like he did to the Amalekites (sp) & when he killed the entire
human population of the earth bar 8 ?
I sincerely hope not.
You r sin Christ,
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From: AutismUK@aol.com
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Newsgroups: alt.bible.errancy
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:08:59 GMT
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Subject: Re: Ai Defended
<< >ELF
>1.) Science does not "prove things true".
MARS
yes it does. what universe do you live in? Many things are proven from
science, such as why the sky is blue, how a plane flies. I would sure hope
we can prove the science of aviation- how many people would board an
aircraft where the pilot says "ok, passengers, lets hope that it works this
time- we've been lucky so far". >>
Paul Robson:
No, nothing is "proven from science" merely (repeatedly) validated.
Why do these dumb Xians all think the sky is blue ? Haven't they
noticed it is sometimes Red ?
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Saleem:
Irrelevant my friend. No matter how hard you try to preach and repackage
the God-Man blood cult...
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Jass why can't you be a man/woman and admit that this is all because you hate
atheist? I notice less and less about "bill" and more and more about atheism.
You had your 15 minutes of fame, now go away. Now I agree with Till you sound
like a Christian, in heat I might add.
Me thinks Jass real name may be Norman L Geisler.
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From: tmrx8@aol.com (Tmrx8)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:00:25 GMT
Subject: Christian Mailers
Hey folks, just a little aside here. Somehow I ended up on a Christian
mailing list. Whenever I get something with a postage paid return envelope, I
take all of the materials they sent to me, including the original envelope, I
fold it all up and place it in their return envelope and mail it back to them.
Maybe they'll be irritated enough to stop casting their pearls before the
swine that I am and take me off the damned list. Besides, it costs them just
that much more money to operate, and its maybe one less convert in the end.
Minister Trudy Veerman, Ph.D, B.Min, C.C.P.
ferryman@reach.net
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 1:15 PM
No accusations, my friend, just statements of conclusions that are easy to read on your website.
Don't show a jealous spirit, for the such will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Bend down your haughty spirit and pay attention to what God's is trying to teach you.
For He didn't sent you for nothing to me. Nothing happens by accident in my Ministry.
THIS EMAIL IS RETURN WITH THE INTENTION TO STOP YOU FROM EMAILING THIS ADDRESS.
IT WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY DELETED
D. Lim:
A lot of christians like to draw conclusion instead of drawing reasoning. Judge like ungodly ones instead of putting on Christ.
1Cor 13v4: Love is patience.
1Cor 13v8: Love never fails.
Very often christians jump out of situation believing that they may win by the bombs they threw in beforehand.
We have time to settle old scores before the return of Christ. Things are not quite final now.
When every resource appear to run out, do not lose hope and trust in God. Pray to the Father through Christ our Lord continuously. He is still working miracles today, and promised miracles in the future.
Be still, and see the salvation of God.
Love always, hope always, believe in Him always. Believe in the good for God is good, if it really is good.
Minister Trudy Veerman, Ph.D, B.Min, C.C.P.
ferryman@reach.net
AUTOMATIC REPLY
SORRY, YOU DID SENT UNSOLOCIT EMAIL. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN YOUR EMAILS.
IF YOU STOP SENDING EMAIL, YOU WON'T RECEIVE THIS REPLY
THIS IS AN AUTOMATIC RESPONSE TO UNWANTED EMAIL
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