Is there Original Sin? - Romans 5v12-17
Romans羅馬書5v12:
5:12 這就如罪是從一人入了世界, 死又是從罪來的, 於是死就臨到眾人, 因為眾人都犯了罪.
12. Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:-- asv
Sin entered into the world through one man. Scripture does not say that sin entered into the world through each man who sinned.
Scripture does not say that sin initially entered the world through one man. It does not teach that each willful sinner brought sin in by their own initiation. There was one initiation. The word "initially" is not found therein.
Scripture does not say that sin again entered the world through each man who sinned. Scripture does not teach multi-entrance of sin. It does not teach sin coming into the world via each sinner.
There is "the effect of sin" after its entrance. Otherwise, it is a waste of words mentioning its entrance. One effect/consequence is death. Adam and Eve died, and so do babies, infants and those seemingly innocent barbarians/natives/Aboregionals. The effect of sin tells us there is sin. If sin enters the world everytime a person sins, then it should be mentioned that sin enters into the world everytime an innocent person started sinning(just as Adam and Eve). This is not so.
The environment has changed. How can we assume or take that people cannot be affected in a changed world? The argument/logic of fairness of God assumes equality of men with God, that God must act with what men conceive to be fair as man facing man. They twisted the notion of the Sovereignty of God. God is the King, the sovereign Lord. What He says/decrees is law. All justice spring from His discourse and position. Fairness starts with His notion, and not with any law system, any other law lords. In fact, all law lords are subjected to the King. He has the last say. That is why God is merciful and gracious, and yet giving these unmerited favor is regarded as just/fair. All because "He is God"!
For advocates of Original Sinlessness, scripture has to be rewritten or rethought as: Intially through one man sin entered into the world.
or: Through one man sin entered into the world first.
Scripture teaches, "and death through sin". This tells us that death comes from sin.
So sinlessness means deathlessness. No sin no death!
So, if babies and foetus do not have original sin, or any sin at all; they should not die or cannot die. This would be unjust/unfair, and requires correction, compensation.
There should be no stillborn, as this is unjust. We ought to be seeing resurrection. They should not suffer death and decay.
Babies cannot die if they have no sin. Yet babies do die.
Animals should not die if sin is not infectious. For it was one man who sinned. No animal is mentioned to have sinned. No animal sinned with that man.
Yet animals do die daily. They get killed. They died of age and violence.
Scripture teaches that the land, the whole creation is cursed with the sinning of man.(Genesis 3vv17,18) The effects of sin can be passed on.
I could well imagine that the advocates of original sinlessness arguing that the effects of sin is passed down as curses 死又是從罪來的, but not original sin being passed down.
This means death without direct cause. You die because some others are wrong. Do you not count this as murder? manslaughter? Where is justice with sin and salvation then?
This also means that the effect of sin passed down but not sin. What a rippling effect.
You suffer and yet without sin? This will be an innocent sacrifice. Without sin yet you obeyed God and suffered the consequence of sin, which is death, and died an innocent death. You would make them perfect sacrifice, atonement lambs, substitutes of Christ our savior. Do you not see heresy here?
Scripture teaches death through sin 死又是從罪來的. Not death after sin 不是死又是跟隨罪來的. 或 - 死又是從一人犯罪以後來的。
於是死就臨到眾人, 因為眾人都犯了罪.and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:
This part of verse 12 is self-explantory. It explains the previous half.
However, we need no exposition and argument if people do respond to scripute reading and self-explanation with unilateral view. So many just try to be difficult all the time.
And this is patience and love, that we keep the conversation and discussion going. Discussion is not debate! For opponents seek only to win by all means and at all cost in debating. There are tricks of suggestion and dishonest tricks of argument. Debaters do not seek honest and fair results. Truthfullness is not part of debating.
Here, in scripture, we have it that sin entered through one man with the noticible effect of death. And this effect came to all men臨到眾人, not because of rippling effect. Why? Because all have sinned.因為眾人都犯了罪.
This is very clear. All have sinned. So they may die. Not all may die for one brought sin into the world.
This last part does not break off from the earlier part so as to read - "Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men."
The last part that explained all have sinned, even that you were born later, even that you may die as a child, even that your thoughts were not manifested and found guilty, does not fit into the first part of verse 13 to make a workable verse 13, as the next verse explains more of this sin as the later part of verse 12 does.
13. for until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
沒有律法之先, 罪已經在世上. 但沒有律法, 罪也不算罪.
The Chinese translation from Union version explains that sin was already in the world罪已經在世上 before there was law沒有律法之先. This means that the effect of sin is from the decree of God, the decree of law. Justice is not served by human reasoning, but through the law dictated by God.
Before the Mosaic law, sin was in the world. Sin is in the creation, in men, in the land.
14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come.
Verse 14 speaks of the REIGN of death; and mentioned that it was over them who had done things not after the likeness of Adam's transgression/sin.
In other words, you need not sin Original Sin to have death over you.
The verse also explains that death reigns over sinners. People had sinned; although they had not sinned after the likeness of Adam.
1John1 v8:
我們若說自己無罪, 便是自欺, 真理不在我們心裡了.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. -kjv
Who can escape sin?
All born through Adam sinned through Adam. Inheritance of sin. Why inherited a body of likeness and not a sinful body of Adam's likeness?
One certainty, even to non-believers, in life is DEATH. Your cells are programmed to die right from the beginning. Your hair fall off; your skin peels; your nails get cut off. Bit by bit you surely die.
Not just physically, mentally you keep forgetting.
Do you still want to pretend that you remember everything?
The last part of verse 14, "who is a figure of him that was to come." This speaks of Christ the Anointed One, who the first Adam/man was modelled from. Christ is before Adam was. Christ is not inheriting everything from Adam; Adam, in the contrary, is inheriting something from Christ.
The middle part of verse 14,"even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression," also refers to Christians, the born again ones of Christ, who fall away from the likeness of Adam's transgression. These people have not yet escaped death completely.
Their earthly bodies still follow the nature of sin inherited from the first Adam.
15. But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many.
"By the trespass of the one the many died 因一人的過犯, 眾人都死了," according to scripture, the death of many眾人都死 is the inherited result of the trespass of the one因一人的過犯. You inherited death. Yet, do you want to make a distinction that you cannot inherit sin? Why so ecclectic?
16. And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one unto condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification.
因一人犯罪就定罪, 也不如恩賜. 原來審判是由一人而定罪, 恩賜乃是由許多過犯而稱義.
"Through one that sinned" not "after one that sinned仿效一人犯罪就定罪".
We are following a line of inheritance繼承﹐遺傳罪過; a line of sin from Adam 由一人而定罪.
原來審判是由一人而定罪for the judgment came of one unto condemnation.
This verse clearly speaks of our inheritance of the judgment. Inheritance came of one. We have the nature of sin我們有罪性.
基督徒也是由一人而稱義。恩賜也是由一人而來。這是新約恩賜繼承。
17. For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ.
Death does not reign after the one man Adam, so that those who did no sin and work no sin still have to die sinless death. Theory of sinless babies void of "original sin".
The idea that you are sinless (without sin, without original sin)if you are incapable of the thought of sin, if you do not actively commit sin, is a rejection of the nature of sin遺傳罪性(inherited in men), acceptance of justification by works/acts/deeds, and denial of justification by faith/belief.
Scriptures do not teach absolute Freewill, since it teaches the nature of sin, and deprivity under sin, inheritance of death and justification/salvation through faith.
Absolute Freewill requires absolute power, being almighty. And God alone is almighty. Being almighty is being God. Completely free from sin, rebellion, and its effect (even death). God has power to work His own ressurection. He saved Himself from the grave(power of Hades).
Christians need not work complete righteousness to be accounted for complete righteousness through the accomplishment of Christ. Again, we have "through" here. Not "after". We do not each work our own salvation by works/thoughts/deeds.
Emotionalism does not work/accomplish understanding and expression of truth.
The truth is testified by a whole passage of 6 verses or more. It is not a pretext of half a verse. The foundation of Original Sin is well laid. There is no ground for Emotionalism. There is no room for the questions and exclamation of,"How can this be, ha-h?", "You think that's reasonable?", "I would not think of my children, my babies as sinful!" "Do you not see how cute and innocent these babies are?"
Emotion does not make truth. It is no cool reasoning. It is not godliness.
The judgement is not left to men. It is decreed by God and judged by the Almighty who sees everything, and is the only wise person.
Absolutism is overexpanded when one wants to have the picture that once righteous thoroughly righteous. The acceptance of Abraham as righteous does not mean he never committed any sin or mistake. He went to have a son with a servant without consulting the will of God. King David was righteous yet with sin. Moses was righteous and yet sinned by stricking the rock when he was instructed to speak to it. Noah was righteous and yet got drunk and became careless.
All attained righteousness and salvation through faith in God, their rock and their fortress.
Sin is not sin only when it is manifested. The nature is there even when it is hidden.
A chicken egg is a chicken egg even though no chick is manifested/hatched therefrom.
A dormant DNA is a functionable DNA present. It has not ceased to exist.
The idea that God is unjust and weak if He allowed men to be sinful(such as having original sin) right at the start, so that they had no chance of leading pure and righteous lives (from the start)is emotionalism instead of deducing the whole revealed truth from scriptures.
Justice is designed by God and exercised by God. This is part of the definition of Him being God. Justice is not designed and wholly controlled by men. It is groundless to judge God by the imagined absolute standard of human justice and reasoning. No one can search the depth of His thoughts.
Adam as the manifestation and representation of mankind had the chance and failed. He has proven the case of men's dependence on God. He has shown the absolute need of Divine intervention and Divine salvation. (There is no grey area) This is putting God first. It is His initiation. This is allowing Christ to be the first born of righteousness, king of the universe, our elder brother, our Lord and Savior. What can be unjust about this? Greater love has no man than this.
Individuality belongs to God.
Greater god can no man make of himself; for there is one God. One Holy One.
Those who are with God seek oneness with God. John17 vv20-22
Christ Jesus is the other Adam who represent truth, holiness, purity and oneness with God. Join Him and rely on what He has done, or fight to have your own good report, good attitude, political correctness?
This choice is yours. The others are of your making.
Choose Christ before it is too late!
Romans羅馬書9v11:
9:11 ((.雙子.) 還沒生下來, 善惡還沒有作出來, 只因要顯明神揀選人的旨意, 不在乎人的行為, 乃在乎召人的 (.主.)).
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) -KJV
This is the doctrine of "election" voiced clearly in Scripture. God planned things, actions, and consequence, and reward, well before His creation, before the birth of events and actions.
God is not passive and reacting to situations. God actively take part in His creation. He planned who will be liked and chosen, and who will be bad and rejected. This is sovereignty. Justice comes from sovereignty. God is not ruled over by laws of nature and matters. God fashions laws and rules. Righteousness is His footstool, His throne.
God judged before the children were not yet born. Babies are deemed to be sinful well before they are born and act sinfully. God planned and knew and proclaimed beforehand. God can tell the future from the past. In the Revelation, we read of the future from our past. This is the Law of God. 不在乎人的行為, 乃在乎召人的 (.主.)).
Arminianism and free choice自由選擇論 depends on sovereignty of the law and the dominance of human rights and choice. This is stormed, shot down擊敗 by Scriptures and the sovereignty獨立主權的神 of God.
自由選擇論被獨立主權擊敗。神預先選定。神有絕對獨立主權。人沒有獨立(在神外)主權﹐進行自由選擇。人在神面前不能因行為為自己辯護或稱正或義。
Things only depend on the good purpose of God.
The purpose of God is never just to live out some laws and rules.
Children and people, worship God, and not any law. Fear God and not any law. Fear God and not your systems of justice and logic/rationale.
Know that He/Yhwh is God!
I, Rev. David C S Lim, 林志誠 牧師, can be reached by internet 也在互聯网﹕ http://www.interlog.com/~dlim/Preacher.html
e-mail 電郵 
jesussaves91@hotmail.com
And remember - - God answers knee mail.
耶穌基督的救恩將人從根本而終極的惡中救出來，藉著救主，死亡不再是終極的惡，它已被置於生命的力量之下。
完全的善是由耶穌而來。
在天上和地下只有耶穌基督的救恩是唯一使人的罪得赦及與神和好的途徑。